Episode #114: Jacqueline and Alexa Child
Please note: This podcast is intended to provide information and education and is not intended to provide you with a diagnosis or treatment advice. You should consult with a licensed or registered healthcare professional about your individual condition and circumstance.
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Dating on an app is challenging. But have you experienced dating on mainstream apps while also living with a disability, chronic, or invisible illness?
After disclosing that she was disabled on mainstream dating apps, Jacqueline Child would often be ghosted and disappointed in the dating experience.
Jacqueline and her sister Alexa decided it was time to develop Dateability, an app that eliminates the worry of being misunderstood, ghosted, or berated with questions, focusing instead on a user base that is inclusive and informed.
In this episode, Jacqueline and Alexa speak about the importance of launching their app together, the value they each provide and why they think it’s so important to create opportunities for people with disabilities and invisible illnesses to safely connect.
“I shouldn’t be embarrassed about chronic pain. but it’s so nice to relate to people on these deep and meaningful life perspectives.”
Some key points of this episode:
Understand the discouraging experiences Jacqueline had on mainstream dating apps that made her realize the gap in the dating market for the disabled and invisible illness community
Discover what inspired Jacqueline and Alexa to take it upon themselves to build Dateability and the vision they have for the app
Hear how each sister contributes to the company through their different experiences, perspectives, and skillsets making them a complementary team
Learn about ableism, its prevalence, and ways we can all be more supportive of people in our community that live with disabilities and invisible illnesses
“We really want to create a community where people can be comfortable being themselves. You’re worthy of love, respect, compassion and kindness.”
About Jacqueline & Alexa Child:
Jacqueline Child is a disabled woman and founder of Dateability. She used her discouraging experiences dating with chronic illness and turned it into a beautiful venture. Jacqueline enjoys spending time with her family and friends, listening to Taylor Swift, and exploring her beautiful state of Colorado.
Alexa Child is the co-founder of Dateability and sister of Jacqueline. She is an attorney who is passionate about social justice. Because of her close proximity to chronic illness, Alexa has become a fierce advocate for the community. She enjoys all of the typical Colorado activities, wearing all black, and listening to good music!
Website: https://info.dateabilityapp.com/
Instagram: @dateabilityapp
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Harper Spero (00:04):
Made visible helps people with invisible illnesses feel seen and heard. It provides a platform for people who seem fine but aren't to share their experiences. It also helps to create a new awareness of how we can be sensitive and supportive to those with invisible illnesses.
(00:25):
Please note this podcast is intended to provide information and education and is not intended to provide you with a diagnosis or treatment advice. You should consult with a license or registered healthcare professional about your individual condition and circumstance. Hey guys, welcome to another episode of Made Visible. I'm your host, Harper Spiro, and I'm so glad you tuned in today's guest, I discovered on Instagram talking about dating with disabilities and invisible illnesses. And I knew I needed to speak to the founders who happened to be two sisters, Jacqueline and Alexa Child. Jacqueline shares what it's been like dating while disabled and living with numerous invisible illnesses, and they share what inspired them to launch their company an app Dateability. So welcome Jacqueline and Alexa.
Jacqueline Child (01:15):
Hi. Thank you so much for having us.
Alexa Child (01:17):
Thank You.
Harper Spero (01:17):
Absolutely. So let's get started. Jacqueline, why don't you tell us who you are, where you're from, and what you do.
Jacqueline Child (01:25):
So, hi everyone. My name is Jacqueline Child and I am a disabled woman. I became disabled due to chronic illness. I have mostly invisible disabilities such as gastroparesis, lupus, rheumatoid arthritis e d s and I co-founded Dateability, the only dating app for the disabled and chronically ill communities. It was brought up due to my horrible experiences on the mainstream dating apps and feeling really isolated and discriminated against due to my disabilities. And so I am here with my sister. We reliving Denver and we're just really excited to share our story.
Harper Spero (02:08):
Amazing. And Alexa, anything for you to share there on the who you are, where you're from, and what you do?
Alexa Child (02:13):
I am Jacqueline Zel sister and in Denver we work together. We live together, so <laugh> we're together all the time and I'm a public interest attorney and also the co-founder of Dateability.
Harper Spero (02:27):
Amazing. You know, it's interesting to hear you, Jacqueline, say your first line out of your mouth is that I'm a disabled woman and you say it with a level of power and we're speaking right now on International Women's Day. So I especially love that. But I'm interested to start off by hearing a little bit about what makes you make that be the first thing that you say and how much you find that it, it's how you identify yourself.
Jacqueline Child (02:55):
Yeah, well I definitely did not always say it like that or even say it at all. I think throughout this journey I've become more confident in myself and realizing that this is part of me, this is who I am. It's something I cannot control no matter how much I want to. And I've, for years been made to feel ashamed or guilty or embarrassed of my disabilities and I would never like to admit that I'm disabled. It would, I would avoid that conversation at all costs. But in having to tell my story after launching Dateability, I've become really comfortable in just saying I'm a disabled woman. Like it's, I have brown hair, it's an inherent part of me and I, I'm done hiding it.
Harper Spero (03:44):
I love that so much. Alexa, how does it make you feel to hear that?
Alexa Child (03:48):
Oh, it makes me so happy. I've watched her journey with her health and struggle with that at times and have ups and downs. You know, she moved to Denver and moved in with me shortly after she graduated college. And so then that's when things started to change and she started to realize, you know, what ableism really was and how it affected her life day to day. Because before that she was in this nice bubble of high school and college and friends. And so watching her navigate that has been tough, but I'm very proud of her for now being confident and not afraid to say who she is and what she stands for.
Harper Spero (04:28):
Absolutely. So Jacqueline, can we go back a little bit and tell my listeners a bit about your story and what led you to the diagnoses that you have?
Jacqueline Child (04:36):
So I became disabled at 14. I had a case of mono and had a pretty severe case I guess. And after that, things were never the same. Looking back, I know that I was born with a lot of these genetic abnormalities and defects but it never clicked until I, after I had mono. And so I was first diagnosed with dysautonomia and gastroparesis and it took a while to get diagnosed. It was a goose chase and ended up taking me all over the country and finally being diagnosed with the Mayo Clinic. And you know, that was back in 2009, 2010. So, you know, the world did not really know about dysautonomia or POTS or anything like that. And then it all kind of spiraled from there getting diagnosed with e D s and degenerative arthritis, trigeminal neuralgia, lupus, and ra. So it's been a, it's been a whirlwind of diagnoses and it seems like anytime one is diagnosed or confirmed something else pops up, which I know a lot of people can relate to. It's this never ending cycle of, okay, well now I have a diagnosis, but there's one looming over my head. <Laugh>.
Harper Spero (05:59):
How do you determine what's going on in your body and def be able to define, oh this is because of my lupus or this is because of my e d s. Are you able to determine and decipher the difference between symptoms or is it all just sponge together? What does that look like?
Jacqueline Child (06:17):
Yeah, sometimes I've been pretty good at listening to my body, but like one instance comes up and I, you know, I had really bad groin pain back in 2019 and I was just like, oh man, I'm in such a bad flare to the point where like a couple days later I still was like, ha, having really hard time walking and I just figured it was my e d s or lupus flaring up. And finally Alexis suggested like, you need to go to the emergency room. Like if you can't walk up the stairs, something's wrong. And ended up having a massive DTS in my stomach, in my legs where if I hadn't gone in I would've died. And so since then I've really been able to listen to my body and like, if something's not right, I need to acknowledge that and deal with it because it's yeah, can be a dangerous road to go down to kind of be like, oh this is just my normal.
Harper Spero (07:17):
Yeah, I think that a lot of people with invisible illnesses can relate to that of like, what is the normal, what is baseline? And trying to figure out like, you know, especially these days with Covid, oh what is that cold? Is this the cold? Is this the flu? Is this covid? Like what is happening in my body? Is this just my normal body being weird and acting up? It's interesting that you say that Alexa is, who encouraged you to get it checked out. I'm curious to hear more about that experience and what it's been like for you Alexa as her sister being an advocate and being the person who sort of encourages her to get things checked out.
Alexa Child (07:59):
Yeah, this one was a place of tough love <laugh> cuz I had heard her complain for days and not be able to walk her dog. And I was like, listen, if you like, if you're in this much pain as you say you are, like, go to the hospital or figure it out. Like I was kind of like, this is not her normal, even with a flare up, like you can barely walk the dog and, and you're not doing anything to help yourself. So I got kind of like fed up I think and had a moment of being like, either go to the doctor or like leave me alone <laugh> and,
Jacqueline Child (08:30):
Well I'm not a complainer
Alexa Child (08:31):
No she's not a complainer. But it wasn't like a day, it had been a few days. And so I think I was finally, you know Yeah, tough love and that was a wild's time. Yeah, very exhausting because I, we lived together, Jacqueline was a dog, so we share responsibilities and I was going back and forth between the hospital and home to walk the dog and the hospital. Finally our mom flew and save the day. But you know, I think that, I always say I was born with the advocacy gene. I am a public interest attorney. That's been very important to me. I'm pretty politically active and I've been advocating for Jacqueline for a while if we're in the hospital and I feel like the healthcare provider's not taking her seriously. I am not afraid to say something and be like, you have to listen to her. And I think that I've, after living, I mean yes, we grew up together, but after living with me as adults, I've rubbed off on Jacqueline because she's gotten a lot better at speaking up for herself where I don't really feel like I need to advocate for you anymore. Yeah.
Harper Spero (09:37):
What do you think shifted there that led to that? Do you think you just saw Jacqueline how Alexa behaved and sort of mirrored what worked and the effect that she was having on people that you said, oh, I can do this for myself as well?
Jacqueline Child (09:51):
Yeah, I think it come, came from a different, a lot of different places of me not being able to speak up. Like I didn't wanna be a burden or I didn't wanna cause any drama or have any confrontation, but then I was just never getting anywhere. I wasn't gonna be able to make any change. And so, you know, hearing Alexa speak up, I realized like she has power in what she's saying and she has that capability to make change. And if I'm just like silent, I'm not gonna be able to do that. And, and I, yeah, I definitely have become a lot better. You know, it's still definitely hard for me to especially get the words out and these moments of confrontation, but I just realized that it's, it's necessary and I can't rely on someone else fighting my battles for me.
Harper Spero (10:44):
Yeah. And I'm sure that it's empowering for you Alexa to watch Jacqueline stand up for herself and speak up in moments where she deserves the best care and the be best treatment from doctors and people around her. You mentioned the way that people with illness or disability are doubted, especially if their symptoms are dynamic or changed day to day. Can you talk a bit more about this and what it's been like for you and your experience?
Jacqueline Child (11:11):
Yeah, I have been extremely fortunate that I don't know if I've really ever been doubted by healthcare professionals. And I know that I think I'm pretty much alone in that
Alexa Child (11:26):
<Laugh>, not to interrupt you, but you were in the beginning, in the very beginning when you couldn't keep any food down, which is a gastroparesis, they did suggest that maybe it was some psychosomatic eating disorder. They did, I remember that. And we were like, absolutely not. That is not what's going on here. Yeah.
Jacqueline Child (11:40):
Very, very
Alexa Child (11:41):
Briefly. But that was the only time I really think that happened.
Jacqueline Child (11:45):
Yeah. And that was very brief and I mean we grew up in a very small town with not great medical care, so it doesn't shock me, but since then I really haven't been doubted. Of course there's doctors who will say that they can't help or that it's just like, you know, my, I'm too complex. But I would say the doubt probably comes more from society and just lay people, friends people who just don't understand the concept of a dynamic disability or even invisible disabilities. And that's been hard, you know, just the last week I was confronted about using the disabled parking space and someone wanted to confirm that it was my car and that, and I said very proudly, I have an invisible disability. And, you know, that got them to shut up real quickly. But so I, I do think it's society that is, is doubting and I even you know, creating this app, I think people will, will sometimes look at our pictures and articles and say, oh, well she's not like really disabled. And it's, it's hurtful and it's harmful for everyone.
Harper Spero (13:01):
Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's interesting you said that early days you did experience that and how you don't remember that Jacqueline? Like that's not the memory in your mind because you have been so fortunate to have doctors believing you that similar experience To me, I wasn't diagnosed until I was 10, but my first 10 years, my mom can tell you horror stories of people not knowing what to do with me and not believing what was going on. But as an adult I've been very, very fortunate that doctors and nurses understand maybe, maybe don't get what I'm going through, but no one's questioned what it is that I'm going through. And I do think, as you said, that that is very, very rare in this community and that most people are feeling like they're not seen and represented and heard. You mentioned the app. So let's dive into all things dating and chronic illness. When you began dating, what kind of assumptions did you encounter about chronic illness and disability?
Jacqueline Child (14:04):
Lots. <laugh> the assumption that I don't want kids or can't have kids or shouldn't have kids. People assuming that, you know, I'm lazy or not a productive member of society or just that I'm a burden. And it really led me to hide and not disclose anything. And it was a really unhealthy cycle of me getting my hopes up and then disclosing my disability or chronic illness and then being ghosted or met with really offensive comments. And so, like Alexa said earlier, it wasn't until I really entered the dating space that I understood what ableism was and how hurtful it is.
Harper Spero (14:48):
Yeah, absolutely. But I agree
Alexa Child (14:50):
And I think that I didn't what ableism was until then either.
Harper Spero (14:53):
Yeah. I think it's one of those things that you don't know until you're in it and you realize what's going on. So when we're talking about dating and your experience, is this all like mainstream apps that you were utilizing at that time?
Jacqueline Child (15:07):
Yeah all mainstream apps and you know, people are very, very comfortable behind a keyboard and I wonder if people would say the things that they've said to me, to my face, but I kind of doubt it. But even if it progressed to a date and we met in person, if my chronic illness had to come up, it just, I would never hear from them again.
Harper Spero (15:30):
At what point did you find yourself telling people and how did you make that decision of when you told them?
Jacqueline Child (15:36):
I would usually wait until it's relevant and sometimes that changed and sometimes it would come up on the first date if they asked me about working or hiking, skiing. And so it would, I would try to play it off and be like, oh, you know, I don't actually hike that much. And then, but sometimes it would just, you know, have to come out and I struggled with figuring out the right time and the right way to do it because I love to sugarcoat things. I love to play things, you know, with humor and yeah, people were not receptive to dating someone with a chronic illness.
Harper Spero (16:15):
Did you have any positive experiences?
Jacqueline Child (16:18):
No, <laugh> honestly. Wow. It's, I mean there, there's one, one person who seemed to be more receptive about it, but I think once he realized how complex it is and how all the different parts of my body it affects and my life, it was, it was too much.
Harper Spero (16:39):
Alexa, what was your perception of this when you were watching her go through this process of trying to date and being met with all this disappointment? And by the way, let, let me just say this, there's enough disappointment in dating itself. Like yes, <laugh> dating is challenging enough that to have people judge you based on this part of your identity is a whole other challenge. So I'm interested to hear your perception of this.
Alexa Child (17:07):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, dating sucks. So in general, but I just always thought it was so shortsighted, you know, Jacqueline's beautiful and kind and smart and has so much to offer and to just reject her because of this seemed so dumb. And then I started noticing ableism on the apps when I was looking. So somebody who's healthy, they're like, that's like what people put on their profile. They're looking for someone who's healthy and or they're looking for someone to hike with them all the time and they're looking for their adventure buddy. And there's things like that that I see that I'm like, listen, what's healthy? And I can be healthy today and I might not be healthy tomorrow and then I might never be like healthy the rest of my life. Like, you just don't know. And I understand wanting to have, you know, similar hobbies or interests.
(17:56):
I do, obviously I do understand that, but I feel like you can have similar interests and separate interests. Like, I love to hike, I'm pretty active. I do that without my sister, I do it with other friends or by myself, but we have so many shared interests and do so many other things together that, you know, I just imagined like if I was in a relationship with her, if I was one of these guys, that's what they could do. Why can't they go hiking or skiing with their friends and then they can go to a movie or a concert or have a picnic in the park or do something together. I don't understand why it has to be like, we have to do everything together. And I just think people don't realize that we're all probably gonna age into disability at some point or another too. So, you know, I think about, for me, I'm able-bodied and non-disabled and I see these profiles looking for somebody healthier. Hi, wants to hike. What happens if I become disabled in the future? Or I'm on a run and I get hit by a car and I can't, you know, do things anymore or is that person just gonna leave because I no longer can do the things like that. And so, yeah, it did change my perspective of dating too. But it was just, it makes me mad for her. Everyone's missing out
Jacqueline Child (19:06):
<Laugh>,
Alexa Child (19:07):
They're a loss, they're lost.
Harper Spero (19:10):
What are those things that you two love doing together, by the way?
Jacqueline Child (19:14):
We love watching TV together. We we're big reality TV people. We love going to concerts, exploring coffee shops and mm-hmm <affirmative> exploring our neighborhood walking the dog. We have a blast together.
Alexa Child (19:29):
We'll do like day trips to other towns outside of Denver and get lunch and sit outside and walk around. Yeah, I don't see like any, like, I don't feel like I'm limited because Jacqueline's disabled and I know we're not in a romantic relationship, but we live together and we spend all the time together and I still do everything I wanna do. Yeah. I j because I have, you know, Jacqueline's not my only friend <laugh>, and you know, it's kind of like that it makes me think like, do you have no to these guys? Like do you have no other friends that you can't do anything else with someone else? That's, so it's weird to me that's what that like, that's almost what it screams to me. And so then I'm like, next,
Harper Spero (20:06):
That's a really valid point. Like, does your partner have to be everything and do you have to do everything together? In my opinion, the answer is absolutely not. So when did the idea of Dateability come to life? How did you decide, okay, I'm done with these stupid apps, they're not getting me what I want. It's more disappointing than enjoyable. How did that come to be?
Jacqueline Child (20:34):
Yeah, for years I would do like the basic Google search of disabled dating apps or chronic illness dating apps. And there were, you know, some here and there and I would download them, realize that it wasn't a real app or it was just all spam accounts. And I was like, how is there nothing like this? We're the largest minority and how is there, there's a dating app for everything. And so it was back in October, 2021 when I had to get a feeding tube and due to my gastroparesis and you know, we, we panicked together about how that would change my dating space and how people were ever gonna understand that. So it was honestly like with a spur of the moment, instantaneous impulsive decision to make the app ourselves. And we started right then and there. I spent the week in the hospital recovering and thinking of ideas for the dating app and no, now we're here over a year later and we're, we're excited that we can give this app that I was looking for for so long and that I'm, I know so many other people have been looking for.
Harper Spero (21:48):
Yeah, I mean the premise of this podcast is exactly what you're talking about of, I went online looking for content related to invisible illness and never found the stories that I wanted to hear of the people that I could connect with. And I said, well if it doesn't exist then I need to create it. And that's so much of like the business and brand that I've created over the years. So what made you do it together? You live together, you're clearly really close, but what made you decide, Alexa, that you wanted to be involved in this?
Alexa Child (22:17):
I mean, I was unemployed at the time. I was laid off due to covid budget cuts. I was working for the government before that and so I was in the middle of a job search and I like to typically have some kind of purpose and a goal and something I'm working towards. So the time was convenient because I didn't have anything else professionally going on. And I think that, you know, we were talking about before how I have that advocacy gene and I've influenced Jacqueline, but we do compliment each other very well. What sh what I lack she makes up and what she lacks I have. And so we're a good team. And I don't know if either of us, I won't speak for Jacqueline, but I don't, I, well I'm <inaudible> so that would be like weird if I did this app on my own, but I don't think I could have done it on my own and vice versa.
Jacqueline Child (23:07):
Yeah, I definitely couldn't have done it on my own. And there honestly was never a question of whether or not we wouldn't do it together. Right. I think that we, we knew it. This is a huge project to take and that it was only gonna work if we if we did it together.
Harper Spero (23:25):
So what skills do you each bring to the business?
Jacqueline Child (23:29):
So I created the, I came up with the name and on the logos and I actually hand drew all the logos and created all of the icons with the graphic design, just honestly like hobby, graphic design experience. And I've been able to secure the press and which we're, we're really proud of after being featured in these like big publications and that branding aspect. I think it's really important that the disability community has someone who's disabled speaking about these issues. And like Alexa said, it would, it would never work if it was just a non-disabled person creating an app like this because we need something for us by us.
Alexa Child (24:17):
You also do all the every Instagram post <laugh>. I have no idea what she's, what's gonna be posted on Instagram until I see it on my personal feed. I do, you know, I have that legal background and so a lot of the really boring legal stuff I am in charge of, I also can be, I don't know if aggressive is the right word and I'm thinking of a better word, assertive. Assertive. And so anytime someone needs to be bad cop, it's I'll happily be bad cop, I don't really care. And so you and then I think, you know, going after I really set my sights on something and I will go after it. And so some of that intensity, like I'll get like things rolling Jacqueline's more laid back and so sometimes that means like me pushing her like no we have to do this or like, we have to send that email right now. And so yeah, I think I'm more operational and then the legal and financial, although the financial, the startup entrepreneurial world and all the finances is definitely a new world for me. I can understand it a little bit better because of my legal background, but it's still a learning curve so we do it, we learn together. Yeah,
Harper Spero (25:26):
Amazing. It's amazing that you're able to do it together, have your, you know, certain skills and yet learn together and and grow together. What is the experience that you're looking for your users to have on the app?
Jacqueline Child (25:41):
We want a very average dating app experience. We want people to go on and see people and see people that they are attracted to or they think are interesting and that they feel included and free from discrimination. You know, people joining the app are expecting some type of person, whether they are physically disabled, intellectually disabled or have a psychiatric disability. You know, people who are signing up know our user base and we just want people to have fun and be safe about dating and not hide like so many of us have had to do on the mainstream dating apps.
Harper Spero (26:24):
You launched the app a few months ago, it hasn't been around that long. What has the experience been like for users that have been on the app thus far? What kind of feedback are you hearing?
Alexa Child (26:34):
So we launched at the end of October and we have about a, between 160 to 190 new users sign up every week. Obviously we want to increase that number tenfold and have it be on par with the other mainstream apps. But all good things take time. Feedback has been good. I think one thing I'll say, which I didn't quite expect is that I think some users will log on and expect it to be like a bumble in a hinge with all of these users and they don't realize that we only launched four months ago and we can't just, you know, magically snap our fingers and have 500,000 users. Cuz if we could, we would. And so we're doing all the customer service. So being on the receiving end of that and having to politely explain that we are brand new and you know, we, this is phase one of the technology as well. So the technology is growing and changing and improving. That's probably been like the hardest part just because we get every criticism, everything comes back, but then there's been so much positive feedback as well. People are so happy to have here. You can explain the dateability deeds, I'll take that. Okay.
Jacqueline Child (27:41):
To you. So on every profile there's a section called Dateability Dets and it's, you know, it shows up under the basic information and it's a list of broad terms like chronic pain mobility, impairment, heart of hearing, and so you can check those off and it's a really good way to destigmatize and neutralize disability and people have really been receptive to those and they feel comfortable and it's like a relief a weight was lifted off that I don't have to explain what what's going on with my body and I can just have it and it's a part of me just like my political affiliation. And so that's been so nice to see because as everyone knows, like just having to explain yourself all the time of what are your symptoms, like what does your chronic illness look like is exhausting and it causes me a lot of anxiety. And so just having that on there is it just a great way to just present it on a platter and you can do whatever you want with that information. And users
Alexa Child (28:48):
Really like that. They feel seen, you know, we've had people match and have, you know, been talking to people and so it's been good so far. Has it changed your own experience as someone dating Jacqueline?
Jacqueline Child (29:03):
Yeah, I think that I'm just becoming so much more comfortable with myself and not embarrassed and it's been really hard to like share my story and share what I have to go through and all these like internal internalized thoughts and even admitting that I was very embarrassed was difficult. But throughout all these interviews and to just having to be really honest and vulnerable has really made me more confident and like I, I just, I shouldn't be embarrassed that I experience chronic pain. It's something silly to be embarrassed about but yeah, it's been, it's kind of been a relief and it's nice to know that there's people with these shared experiences out there and that if I start talking to someone from the app, we can relate on more than just our hobbies. We can relate on these really deep and meaningful life perspectives.
Harper Spero (30:02):
Yeah, I think it's very similar to meeting new friends in the chronic illness and disability space and going, wow, we have this common identity related to our health, but also we love this movie or we love this band or we're both from this same city and these common interests in common backgrounds or what can bring people together and that can be in the dating sphere as well. So what advice do you have for people who are interested in dating who have chronic illnesses or disabilities in navigating the dating space other than obviously joining Dateability
Jacqueline Child (30:39):
Join inability, all your problems will go away. <Laugh>? No I think that you shouldn't feel like you have to hide yourself and it's okay if you don't wanna disclose right away. I think there's, even with talking to other disabled people, just because someone's disabled, you don't need, they don't deserve all of that information up front. But if you feel like you have to hide something in front of someone, they're, they're not the right person for you and, and you want someone who will stick by you through thick and thin like Alexa mentioned before, it's health is ever evolving and trust is just so important in that and feeling like you can communicate with your partner and communicate those symptoms and your good days and your bad days. It's just all about opening up, opening up and trusting yourself and trusting the other person.
Harper Spero (31:32):
I love that so much. Alexa, when you think about someone newly diagnosed with a chronic illness or a disability, what would you say to their siblings or family members or people who love them in helping to navigate?
Alexa Child (31:46):
That's a good question. I mean it's not always going to be easy. It is very hard to watch somebody you love be in pain and be sick and it is definitely an adjustment. You know, at this point now we're at the point where Jacqueline's been sick for so long that I don't really remember what it was like when she wasn't sick. But it depends, you know, it depends on like what stage of life you're in and how old you are, but to be patient to know, to let the other person know that you're there for them no matter what. I think, and it depends on the person's personality. Javan won't always ask for help. So sometimes I'll just be able to pick up on cues and say, do you want me to take the Luna, the dog <laugh>? Do you want me to take the dog out tonight? Like I can take her and just think offering helper, is there anything I can get you or do you need a nice pack? And just being there, I think people sometimes are afraid to ask cuz it makes 'em feel like their burdensome or they need someone to take care of them and sometimes just offer your care and I think that goes a long way.
Harper Spero (32:47):
Yeah, I think that's a really good point. But I do also think that it can't be assumed that people read your mind and this is coming up in a lot of conversations that I'm having personally and with the podcast and I just think it's a really interesting aspect of assuming people know what you're going through and what you need. So I'm interested to hear your answer to that Jacqueline, and how you feel like you want Alexa to know what to do or other friends or other family members, like how does that affect you in getting what you actually need and deserve?
Jacqueline Child (33:20):
Yeah, that's a great point because I often assume like I have been dealing with this for now more of my life than not and I am like, yeah, how do you not know this already? Like <laugh> Yeah, I'm, I'm real in such a high pain day today. Like can't you tell. And so definitely like giving grace to, to my healthy family members and the reality is is that Alexa can spend all this time with me and she will never understand what I'm going through and that's no fault to her. It's just my experience and not hers. And so understanding that, yeah, maybe I will have to explain something again or I will have to tell her for the 10th time that this bothers me. But I mean I have to, I, that's just what you have to do and to maintain those healthy relationships and it's, it can be, yeah, it's hard to be open and sometimes I think assuming someone can read my mind is easier for me than to be admitting to my pain or my symptoms and you know, it's, it's at the end of the day like a way to protect myself.
Alexa Child (34:32):
We still have days where exactly she's really quiet and I'll still ask her if she's mad at me
Jacqueline Child (34:38):
<Laugh>.
Harper Spero (34:40):
So at the end of the day, you're just two sisters with or without health conditions, right?
Alexa Child (34:47):
<Laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. But I think being open that having that communication is really helpful. And I will add that you were mentioning friendships earlier and you know, we know Jacqueline has struggled with platonic friendships in addition to romantic ones and having that shared experience. And so after we launched Dateability, we decided that we should create a friendship logic or a friendship feature where somebody can go in and say what they're looking for. So that's in the works right now. It'll be a, it's a couple of months down the road, but we are doing that cause we really just wanna create this community of people who can, you know, feel more comfortable and less likely to have to explain everything.
Harper Spero (35:28):
What do you hope for Dateability in five years from now?
Alexa Child (35:32):
We hope the Dateability is the go-to app for the disabled and chronic BA communities. It has that name recognition similarly to the way Grindr is for the LGBTQ plus community, just that is the app. Everyone knows its name. We're doing, you know, partnering with advocacy organizations, making policy change, partnering with big name brands for accessibility efforts to improve accessibility for other brands. That's what we really hope that Dateability becomes this empire and a platform for change.
Harper Spero (36:03):
Amazing, I love that so much. So last question and I'd love to hear from both of you. What do you want people to know about invisible illness?
Jacqueline Child (36:12):
Ooh, that's a big question. And I think that at the end of the day, we are all people and that invisible illness or not, we are worthy of love and respect and companionship and kindness and that we have to remember that you never know what someone's going through and it can be really easy to judge someone based on their appearance, but we're so much more than that. What matters is what's on the inside and that, yeah, it's, it's important to be kind to people and that everyone is struggling in some ways, whether it's an invisible illness or mental illness. And it's really important that we remember to be anti ableist and really foster a community that accepts and is provides equitable experiences.
Alexa Child (37:09):
And yeah, I would say that you really have no idea what people are going through and that some days are good days and some days are bad days. So just because you know, Jacqueline can ride a bike one day doesn't mean she can all the time. And if she's riding her bike that one day, that doesn't mean that she's not disabled. And I think the other thing is that I often hear from people about, they kind of classifies me as a caregiver and that is ableist. And while yes, some of my experiences with Jacqueline are more unique, like most of my friends don't take their siblings to the hospital only to find out they have a D V T and are, you know, having to deal with that. That is true. Most people don't have siblings who have to go into have heart surgery or brain surgery at the same time. Like, I'm not her caregiver, I don't just take care of her. We take care of each other in the way that family takes care of each other always. And so that's something that I would also want people to be mindful of.
Harper Spero (38:04):
I love that you said that so much because really you, you both seem really lucky to have each other. It's not just, oh, Jacqueline's lucky to have Alexa, but Alexa's lucky to have Jacqueline as well and it's so clear how much you're learning from each other and growing together. So I love that you live together, you're working together and you're living life together, so keep doing what you're doing. I look forward to having a follow up interview years down the road when you have thousands and hundreds of thousands of users because unfortunately or fortunately there are so many people that can use your app. Where can people connect with you and download Dateability?
Jacqueline Child (38:45):
We are on Instagram at dateability app, we are on TikTok on at dateability, Facebook, LinkedIn, if you wanna go there and you can download the app on the app store or Google Play. And we also have a web application for laptops and desktops and it's dateability app.com. So if your accessibility needs our more extensive, you can use the web application.
Harper Spero (39:13):
Amazing. Thank you both so much for joining me today. Thank
Jacqueline Child (39:17):
You. You thank you.
Harper Spero (39:20):
Thanks for tuning into Made Visible. We hope you learned about something new today. If you enjoyed this episode, please take a few minutes to subscribe, rate and review the show on Apple Podcast. Your support means the world to us. Visit made visible stories.com to check out our writing workshops, corporate offerings, and more information that can help you in navigating life with an invisible illness. Follow made visible stories on Instagram. See you next week.