Episode #122: Kate Milligan
Please note: This podcast is intended to provide information and education and is not intended to provide you with a diagnosis or treatment advice. You should consult with a licensed or registered healthcare professional about your individual condition and circumstance.
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Kate Milligan is an Emmy-nominated producer, writer, speaker, storyteller, host of The 1 Girl Revolution Podcast, and founder of 1 Girl Revolution.
In this episode, you'll see the power of determination, a supportive community, and a wealth of resources modeled in Kate's story and hear how that helped her experience a much higher quality of life that continues today.
Kate was four years old when she was diagnosed with Job’s Syndrome, after years of dealing with uncomfortable symptoms that doctors couldn't identify (and, at times, were unwilling to treat). Her symptoms included eczema that was so bad she would itch her hair out and people assumed she was a Make-A-Wish Foundation kid. Kate was lucky to have a mom who advocated for and researched dietary solutions for her, well before there were accessible products and resources which set her up for success as she became an adult and further learned to manage her own health and happiness.
At the time of her diagnosis, Kate's sister was also diagnosed with Job’s Syndrome, which showed just how differently these conditions can affect individuals and that every healing journey is unique.
“Even if you’re an adult and something doesn’t seem right to you, ask those questions. If you don’t feel like you’re getting the answers or the support, ask those questions because doctors don’t know everything.”
Reasons To Listen:
Learn how to identify the stressors that may worsen your symptoms through Kate's examples of eliminating stress to reduce eczema breakouts and skin issues.
How being bullied in school because her condition made her look different planted seeds that would grow into the work Kate does today with 1 Girl Revolution.
The process of finding a "magic feather" to bring back Kate's courage and charisma and how starting Irish dancing as a child helped her find her feisty, fiery self again.
Hear what it looked like for Kate to take over her health when she entered adulthood and what resources, tools, and support Eastern Medicine gave her.
Kate's tips for identifying what works and doesn't work for your body and what she's learned about how food affects her Job’s Syndrome.
About Kate
Kate Milligan is an Emmy-nominated producer, writer, speaker, storyteller, host of The 1 Girl Revolution Podcast, and founder of 1 Girl Revolution. 1 Girl Revolution is a multimedia platform dedicated to highlighting the authentic stories of everyday women and girls who are changing the world through their lives. 1 Girl Revolution has also produced an Emmy-nominated documentary series available on YouTube with two documentaries released thus far: "The Girl Inside" and "In Tandem."
Links:
Resources:
Check out past episodes about Hyper IgE Syndrome/Job’s Syndrome:
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Harper Spero (00:04):
Made Visible helps people with invisible illnesses feel seen and heard. It provides a platform for people who seem fine but aren't to share their experiences. It also helps to create a new awareness of how we can be sensitive and supportive to those with invisible illnesses.
(00:25):
Please note this podcast is intended to provide information and education and is not intended to provide you with a diagnosis or treatment advice. You should consult with a license or registered healthcare professional about your individual condition and circumstance. Hey guys, welcome to another episode of Made Visible. I'm your host, Harper Spero, and I'm so glad you tuned in. Today's guest is someone I met a few years ago through the Facebook group of people living with my condition, Hyper IgE E syndrome, otherwise known as Job’s Syndrome. Kate Milligan is the founder of 1 Girl Revolution. We have so many synergies as discussed on the show between the way our mothers took control of our health when we were younger to becoming entrepreneurs focused on storytelling. So I'm really excited to have this conversation with you today because you're the first guest on the show to have the same condition as me, hyper IgE syndrome or Job’s Syndrome. We had Jan Wiese on episode 19, who's the mother of Lucy who has our condition, and we had Dr. Alexandra Freeman, who's my doctor at the NIH episode 24 talking about the condition. But I have not had anyone to sit here and have this conversation with on the show. So I'm really, really excited about this chat.
Kate Milligan (01:46):
I'm so excited about this chat too. And Harper, one thing that I think you know, is my, you and my younger sister I know will talk about it, but my younger sister and I both have Job’s Syndrome and you were actually one of the first people that we met that was our same age that had, cuz I feel like I see a lot of stories of people whose children have Job’s Syndrome or you hear about older people that may have had Job’s Syndrome but you were the first person that we got connected with and so it's been really cool and interesting to walk this journey with you.
Harper Spero (02:18):
Yeah, I mean, I feel the same way. I remember being in the Facebook group of people with our condition and all of a sudden seeing your post or Delia's posts and going, oh my God, these are people in their thirties that get it, that live in a city. They have these thriving careers and lives and also live with this underlying condition. So let's take a step back. When were you diagnosed and what were the symptoms that led to that?
Kate Milligan (02:45):
So I was diagnosed when I was four years old. And my, I had a lot of issues even as a baby. So I had terrible eczema when I was born. And so even all my little baby pictures, six months old, even I had terrible red little cheeks rash. I would try to itch my skin even as a baby. Doctors were telling my mom, no babies, babies can't itch. Babies don't know that feeling. Don't know the itching feeling. My mom, my mom was like, well my baby's itching so she's figuring it out. I would pull a little sock, she would put socks on my hand. So I wouldn't scratch and she, I would pull the socks off even as a baby and try to itch my skin. So that was kind of the first detector or the first thing that was happening.
(03:30):
My mom was a woman before her time. So before the time of Whole Foods, before the time of trader Joe's and all this organic gluten-free stuff that now we have our world is filled with. My mom was identifying different things that were making my eczema worse and started cutting them out. So even as a baby, she recognized that dairy seemed to be a problem. So she stopped giving me milk or yogurt and focused on things that didn't have dairy and applesauce other things that of course were more nutritional but figuring that out and really piecemealing things together. So that was just a major detector. And so I suffered from terrible, terrible eczema at two or three years old, I would itch my hair out. So people oftentimes thought I was a make-a-wish foundation kid. When we, when we went to Disney World, in fact people thought that I was on a Make-a-Wish Foundation trip because I could only wear pajamas, cotton, little cotton pajamas cuz my, my clothes would stick to my skin.
(04:34):
I had no hair cuz I would itch it out. And so my mom just kept asking questions, taking me to different doctors. Nobody could figure anything out. And then my sister Delia was born when I was four and she was the person, the baby that kind of started pulling back the layers. She had a lot of health issues when she was born. We went to University of Michigan and they ended up identifying that Delia and I both had the same condition. So Delia was a baby, I was four years old and they identified it as Job’s Syndrome. And that was of course the beginning of a very long journey of still asking those questions, trying things going to different doctors, going to different specialists. But I was four years old when I, to answer your question, I was four years old when I was diagnosed with Job’s Syndrome.
Harper Spero (05:20):
So as you're telling this story, I'm having such a memory of being on Zoom with you and Delia when we first spoke and the whole time just going, me too, me too <laugh>. Oh my God, me too. The entire conversation was realizing everything you just said I experienced as well and you had, you had socks on your hand. My mom had random cotton gloves that she found and this scratching and the itching and like the dietary thing I think was something that was so fascinating to talk about here that both of our mothers went that route because mm-hmm we're similar age and that was not what was happening at that time. To your point, whole Foods and these different businesses and, and gluten free and yeast free were not things then. And it's something that I was doing as well and I saw so many different practitioners and holistic, you know experts and no one really still knew what to do with me. It was a lot of trial and error. And I know that you've been through that as well. So what was it like growing up, having a sister with the same diagnosis and how were your symptoms different and similar and how did you guys navigate the experience together?
Kate Milligan (06:38):
It was really interesting and I think helpful in a lot of ways to have a sister that also had Job’s Syndrome, but our experiences with it were, and still are different. So Delia's never really had all of the terrible eczema that I've had. Our food allergies are different so I can't have eggs or butter or things like that. And Delia can have some of those things or she can have them in different ways. So I can have eggs or dairy if it's baked in a cake or baked in muffins or something. And Delia kind of has a little bit different, her, her allergies are a little bit different, so she might be able to have like duck eggs. She was telling me yesterday she was like, I can eat duck eggs. Like I scramble them, whatever. I'm so terribly allergic to eggs that I wouldn't even touch a duck egg with a 10 foot pole cause I'm too scared.
(07:31):
Which may, I mean, maybe she's onto something, maybe I am am not allergic to those. And I think as we grow, as we get older, of course our allergies can change. I know that when we were going to University of Michigan as as children, they said that we were gonna grow out of different things. We were gonna grow out of the eczema, we were gonna grow out of the some of the food allergies. I haven't, and Delia hasn't. It's just stayed pretty much the same. But definitely as we've gotten older, our our bodies have changed and things have changed even with eczema. So I don't really have as many issues with eczema these days. My eczema has always been inflamed in the summer months, so whenever it gets hot and I'm sweating, which is interesting because the majority of people that have eczema issues, they have it in the winter when it's cold.
(08:22):
So that could be a detector with regards to Job’s Syndrome, you know, all of our bodies are a little bit different and the ways that we experience things versus other people is different. So I think growing up it was, there were a lot of questions. My mom was always asking questions, which I know your mom was too. And that any parents that are listening, that is the thing that I encourage everyone is, you know, your kids better than anyone and and also we know ourselves too. So I think it's important to say to people that are out there. Even if you're an adult and something seem right to you, ask those questions. And if you don't feel like you're getting the answers or you're getting the support to ask those questions because doctors don't know everything. And, and so maybe your doctor doesn't really know how to help you or how to support you in this questioning journey that you're on, but find somebody who will.
(09:12):
And that's what my mom would always do for us as kids. And so that was something that still to this day, I feel like that was the greatest gift out of all of this is ju just that I was taught to ask questions and not one person's you know, judgment as, as the end all be all to keep asking questions and keep trying things. Like my mom used to say that she was the bigger, biggest what if her there ever was. And so she'd be like, okay, well what if this, what if that, what if this doesn't work? What if this does work? And so she, it was like kind of this puzzle piece journey. She would identify something. So even as little kids, we weren't allowed to eat Kellogg cereal because it had B H t and M S G in the cereal.
(09:54):
But post cereal, which I don't even think is around anymore, maybe it's changed the name post cereal would put the, the additives in the packaging. So my mom would say, okay, you can have post cereal, we'll still do the sugar cereal. It was before the times of, of gluten and gluten free. So I don't think that that was even on my mom's radar, but that's something as an adult when I was 21 I realized that I was drinking beer, of course 21 went to Europe for my study abroad and fainted at some point mysteriously and didn't know what caused that. And at the same time my eczema had flared up, which I hadn't really had a lot of issues with. It was really bad. And then I ended up identifying that that gluten was a huge, huge issue, huge issue with regards to my eczema.
(10:40):
And so even to this day, I stay away from gluten cuz I, and stress, stress is a big thing. Anybody who has Job’s Syndrome and, and probably a lot of things stress can be a factor. So as a little kid and then throughout my life too, my mom would identify, you know, as a little kid, she would identify what are the stressful, the things that are causing stress. And so if it was a school issue or bullying, cuz I struggled with that a lot throughout school because I looked different. And because I had all these different allergies where I would bring, I couldn't eat the, the school lunches, I would have to bring a school luncheon. But I will say that having the parents that I did, because my dad also was the greatest supporter of all these things that my mom was coming up with, you know, she would come up with all these different ideas of things that might help and my dad would support her to the end of the earth. And I think that that's really important to give him a shout out. And then having the siblings that I did, having Delia to walk through this with and then I have another sister, Moira and a brother Peter who, you know, all of us have have different issues and health concerns and we've really become a stronger family probably because of all that we've gone through with syndrome and everything else.
Harper Spero (11:55):
It's so amazing. I mean, I remember when we spoke feeling so I don't think jealous is the word, but like grateful for you to have been able to have Delia to go through this with and realizing how isolated I felt in my experience and in choosing not to find people like you and figure out that you existed on this planet. I think that like there's something so magical about that and I really just relate just so much about what you're talking about. And, and I'm curious, you refer to yourself as a sassy and fiery young girl and I really related to that when I heard you talk about that on your podcast, but that you went to school and you wilted as a flower. Can you talk a little bit more about that? And you mentioned bullying and what that was like for you as a kid?
Kate Milligan (12:48):
Yeah, so as a four year old, I would like march into University of Michigan, go walk in, March in, do whatever tests, blood tests, all the things, had all kinds of opinions, wanted to tell everybody about my life and everything that was going on. So I was just really feisty little kid, really joyous even though I suffered greatly. And my mom would always talk about that. She was like, yeah, it's crazy to me that here you are suffering, you know, so painful. I would, I wouldn't sleep at night, I would, you know, itch myself, wake myself, itching. So wake up itching and my mom didn't know what to do to like help me. But here I am, this happy, joyful, feisty little kid, always opinionated. And the end, something happened when I got into school. So I go to kindergarten, you know, start when I was five kindergarten and that seemed to be okay.
(13:37):
And then once I got into first grade, I started just becoming very insular and I still would come home and be myself around my siblings. It wasn't anything that was going on at home, but my parents, thankfully because of who they are, they started asking questions and were like, Kate's acting different when she comes home from school. And they ended up realizing that I was being bullied by a bunch of kids in class. Anytime I would raise my hand because I looked different, I'd raise my hand to ask a question or contribute I would be mocked or bullied or there's the girl with the rash or this like name calling. And so I just stopped talking completely. I just stopped. And so I wouldn't ask questions in class, I would keep my head down. I wanted to become invisible and it was really painful.
(14:25):
You know, it's painful to be that little kid and I think in a lot of ways I still identify it with that little girl because there are moments and all of us, it's interesting to see like the invisible thread that connects our life and how the things that we go through as a little kid sometimes still rear their head as we get older. And so I think there are even moments as an adult where it's like, you know, you're in a room of people and like you're shy to ask, raise your hand or ask the question. And I think it goes back to that like remembering what I went through at that moment. But also on the flip side, I think it's, that's what's led me to doing what I'm doing now with one Girl Revolution because I know that women's voices and their stories need to be heard.
(15:04):
And I know what it felt like to be ignored and marginalized and forgotten about and and mocked and shushed and you know, you all the different ways that someone can be can be silenced and marginalized. And so my mom said we have to do something like we have to do something and I, I need to find something for Kate to do. We have to bring her courage and this little charisma of a girl back. And so my mom loved the movie Dumbo. And so she would talk about the magic feather and she was like, we need a magic feather. We need a magic feather for Kate. Something that's special. And so my mom decided to put me in Irish dancing cuz my mom as a 20 something year old found that was her magic feather. She was kind of a quiet, insular person and then started doing Irish dancing scene in her twenties.
(15:52):
So she was like, well if this worked for me when I was in my twenties, I'm sure it'll help this kid. You know, this seven year old kid. And I sobbed Harper, I sobbed all the way to Irish dancing scene the first time I went, didn't wanna go, mama, mama, no, please don't make me go. Don't make me go. I don't wanna go again cuz it was standing up in front of a group of people and I was terrified and Mama, please don't make me go. And my mom said, look, just go four times. If you go four times and you hate it, like that's it. You never have to go again. I went, Harper was obsessed with Irish dancing, like went four times, kept going, ended up Irish dancing until I was 18 years old and went off to college, got immersed in all of the Irish culture. That was, was my magic feather. So I was like doing Irish dancing at all of the school functions. I would wear my beautiful Irish dance dress. And that's really how I reconnected with that little girl. The little girl, the feisty fiery little girl that I once was and, and found her again.
Harper Spero (16:50):
Ugh. I love that story so much. And again, I just, you know, give so much credit to your mom for identifying what you needed and what would be best for you and realizing that you needed some level of an outlet. Did you have any other outlet, whether it was within school, some sort of therapy or any other support outside of your family?
Kate Milligan (17:14):
So I think it was also a sign of the Times, Harper. There really wasn't there weren't a lot of resources. I don't think that people, people still don't know what to do with Job’s Syndrome, right? Like we talk about it, we tell people about what we go through and you could probably say that about a lot of, you know, invisible things that people are dealing with, struggling with mental health. I mean, you know, the list goes on, there's so many different things, but people didn't really know what to do with it. Like what did it mean? Was it just a skin thing or how did the, like what are, what were the support systems that were needed? So I really didn't really, it was my family that was hugely the biggest support. We would go to University of Michigan once a year and they offered like if we needed anything outside of that, but even then it was like we'd do the tests and we were doing so well because of the different things my mom was implementing at home that they kind of would pat us on the back and send us home and be like, all right, looks, looks good.
(18:09):
We don't really know what <laugh> what we should be asking or testing for. I think our immediate family, we were really strong and connected for a lot of different reasons because of some of the health issues that I mentioned to you. And also my dad had a, a life-threatening head injury where he almost died and when he was 33 years old. So I was a little kid at that point and you know, there were things that really brought us together and brought us stronger made us stronger together. So I think that's really important. It's important for people to have community. And one thing I will say too is my mom, you know, here I am this little kid and like I had friends, you know, a couple of really good friends. There were some not so nice people in my neighborhood that were the bullies, you know, deal dealt with that.
(18:53):
So I always felt like I had a little bit of a community, but my mom was the most incredible resource. She built her community, she built her army. So she joined Che and started asking those women questions, you know, and then she joined a food co-op, started asking those women questions, got to know the vitamin company in our, in our local, our little town, and started asking questions to those people that were, that owned that place. And so I think that's the most important thing. It's hard to say, like for little kids like to build community cuz it's like, all right, who are you gonna build community with with your, your little neighborhood friends or whatever. You don't have a lot of control over who you get to be friends with. But my mom did an amazing job of building an army that was such a huge support throughout everything, throughout, you know, my own personal struggles, struggles with Delia, all of our health issues and asking questions and really being a support system.
Harper Spero (19:49):
Well, and it also sounds that like she was really determined, that's a key word here. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>, she was determined to find answers and to ensure that you had a good quality of life. That's so, so obvious here and unfortunately not the case with all parents and children. So you talk about community, I'm curious, did you talk to that small group of friends about what you were going through? Did they ask you questions and were you forthcoming about what you were living with?
Kate Milligan (20:19):
That I think was one of the most powerful experiences. Harper is the kids, the children that ask questions. And I think that also says more about the parents in those situations than it does about the kids. But I'll always remember this girl Megan Green, I'll give her a shout out. I still follow her on, on Facebook and I don't think she even realizes when I was in fifth grade, she touched my skin and she was like, Katie, cuz everybody used to call me Katie when I was younger. Katie, does that hurt? Does it hurt? And like out of such compassion, like touched my skin and I'll always remember her like looking at my skin and touching me. And so those kids that were curious and asking questions, I was always open to, to answer it. It was always just a part of my story, right? It doesn't define me completely.
(21:03):
And, and I never wanted that. I never wanted to be defined by like, oh, I can't do something because of Job’s Syndrome. The reality is there are things that I cannot do. There are things that I'll never be able to do. When I went to fifth grade camp and I rode a horse for the first time and was so excited, came back, running back to the cabin to tell my mom and I was like, mama, mama, it was so fun. My face and all of my skin has hives all over it. <Laugh> bro, right? My mom was like, all right, I think we need to take some Benadryl and figure that. I don't think you can go horseback riding again, <laugh>. So little things like that, like there are just legitimate things that I'll never be able to do and that's okay. It's, but not allowing that to define myself, but those kids that ask questions and those kids that included me or didn't judge me for what my skin looked like. Cuz the reality is, is it's not contagious. You know, it's the, it I it's not gonna do anything to anybody. If anything, it was more painful for me than it would be for, for anyone else. And you know, just having these kids ask questions and, and just loved me for who I was. And I, I did have a handful of really good friends that just didn't it almost like they recognized that like I had food allergies and it was just a normal thing to them. It just normalized it.
Harper Spero (22:21):
You're having me really think back to my own childhood because I don't remember people asking questions. I certainly dealt with bullying, but I was so lacking confidence related to my health that I didn't speak about it ever, ever, ever, ever as a child. So it's interesting to hear this, you know, I didn't think that it defined me and I still don't, I basically refused to believe that it was part of my story. So that's where, you know, our stories are really different is I just pretended it didn't exist. It was so visibly there, it was so visibly an issue internally and, and externally. But I just sort of put band-aids on it in such a major way that I didn't even allow people in to support me or touch my skin. I mean, I can't even imagine that happening. And it's interesting you bring up that, the horseback riding thing because I remember a few years ago when my parents bought their house, I was like gardening for the first time in my life. And I don't know why, but I remember mentioning it to my doctor and she was like, oh my god, Harper, you should not be touching mulch. That's so dangerous for you. That and hay are like two things to stay away from. And so as the city girl that I am, I'm like, that's fine. I can live without those things.
Kate Milligan (23:40):
<Laugh>.
Harper Spero (23:43):
So your, your mom has come up a lot in this conversation. Understandably so. And I'm so curious to know, at what point do you feel like you were the one to take control over your health and she was sort of more on the back burner?
Kate Milligan (24:02):
That's a great question. Yeah, she, I think was the, the leader for sure until I turned 18. She was the one that we were al and she just was a very knowledgeable woman. So even I have to say that like throughout my adulthood I've always called her to like ask her about like, okay, what do you think about this? This is what I'm doing. Like do you think that this is the right thing or what would you do here? But really when I turned 18, cuz I went off to college and then I started to have to make decisions on my own. And there were things that I for sure, you know, didn't take us seriously that my mom, like the Kellogg cereal thing, like I remember being like, all right mom, like whatever is that really that important? But really I think everything that, that she, the foundation she had laid, I've come full circle. So there were things that I kind of didn't take as seriously and now take very seriously and think through. And probably even more so now that there are so many discussions about food and additives and seed oils and you know, like, I don't know that anyone has the answers, but still like asking the questions and trying to figure out what works and what doesn't.
Harper Spero (25:08):
And from my understanding from our conversation previously, you've really taken the eastern medicine route in your own healing. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So I'm curious, what has worked best for you in navigating this all and how you decide, you know, a practitioner is good for you or a diet is good for you? What's determining that when typically western medicine doesn't really know what to do with that?
Kate Milligan (25:33):
The greatest thing that I've done is follow that, what my mom did, where it's like you gotta build your army. So building your army, asking questions. It's not to say that I, I still go to my regular doctor, you know, I still go do all of those things and, and listen to what their recommendations are. But in my experience, Western medicine just hasn't had a lot of solutions for the things that I, that I'm going through or things that I'm experiencing. Whereas the eastern side and even just as simple as like watching the additives in food or using more natural creams I think that that has been really helpful. And so it really, it's just building your army, asking questions. And for me we have an amazing nurse practitioner here who does homeopathic medicine, Julie Johnson and she does something called the zeto machine, Z Y T O, which I encourage everybody to look it up.
(26:26):
So interesting. But you, it's connected to your computer, you put your hand on it and it can read all the different things going on in your body. It doesn't answer all of the questions, right? It sometimes it actually just presents even more questions where it's like, okay, this is what I'm seeing, this is what's going on in your body. So having that and then also going to my regular doctor and sometimes I have had many instances where they look at me like I'm crazy talking about the xito machine or talking about different things that I'm doing or not doing. And but that's been my whole life. I mean that was even when my mom was using bag bomb, which is for cows udders, she was using that on my skin. And I remember the doctor at University of Michigan looking at us like we were insane.
(27:09):
But now a lot of people with Job’s Syndrome use bag balm and they buy it from the farm store. So she was obviously a woman before her time. And yeah, I think it's important to find those different things. With regards to things that have worked the best for me, a lot of it is food related. A lot of it is stress. So making sure that I'm not stressed, that's when I always get different breakouts of eczema or cold sores or different skin issues. And so really trying to keep that to a minimum stress to a minimum. I don't eat dairy, gluten, eggs, I'm allergi terribly allergic to nuts, so I don't eat any nuts either. But really sticking to that and it can be very difficult to start that type of diet, but it was little by little, I just started taking things out and I probably could do even more honestly, Harper, there are probably a lot of things that cause inflammation in my diet or other things that, that I could cut to make me feel even better.
(28:09):
But it's one step at a time, it's a journey and we're constantly learning about our bodies and I think so much is changing in the world with regards to medicine but also with regards to our food, good and bad. And so identifying things that are working or not working for your body. I do a lot of like reading and research. I love a good Instagram story or a TikTok, you know, about different things. I'm not saying that we should follow whatever trend is going on, but I think with regards to food and health and wellness, there is a lot that we can learn from one another and obviously social media is such a great way for us to connect Harper. You and I wouldn't be sitting here if it, if we hadn't connected through social media. So I think it's just, you know, one step at a time and every single body is different.
(28:56):
So, you know, our journey is, even though there's a lot of similarities, harper and like obviously we both have the same thing with regards to Job’s Syndrome. Our bodies react and interact differently to it. And that's the same with my sister Delia and I, you know, we grew up in the same household and even then my mom was identifying things that, that she didn't want us to have, but even then there were intricacies to what worked for Delia and what worked for me. And so really recognizing that and, and being willing to, to ask the questions and, and challenge yourself too, I think is important.
Harper Spero (29:29):
I'm so glad you brought that up because I, I listened to you and I'm going, I know that I can be better with my diet, but I've done allergy testing and I've tried different diets and nothing has made a huge impact that it made it feel worth it for me to eliminate certain food groups. Yes, I do know that certain things happen. I have some joint pain when I eat too much gluten, but it's not gluten in general. So for me it's sort of identifying what it is. Sometimes too much dairy, but it's never, I, I eat dairy and gluten every day and my skin is in the best, you know, shape. It's been in years. So for me that feels like there's no reason to do anything with it. I know that there's stuff that would be better for my lungs from an inflammatory standpoint and sometimes I listen to it and sometimes I don't, you know, because I think for me, and I, and I'm curious, your standpoint on this is I don't wanna deprive myself of things. I want to enjoy life and enjoy food. So I'm so curious. I think of you as someone who enjoys life as well. How do you find your way to enjoying food as well?
Kate Milligan (30:40):
Well, I love food. One good thing is I love to bake and cook and that probably started when I was younger because my mom also would like bake a lot of stuff at home for us because then you're controlling over like what, what is going into it? What are the additives, right? Like if you're just using more pure or natural ingredients. We have a, an amazing farmer's market here and so even like getting things from the local farmer's market and cooking and baking like that has been something that has been really good. But I love food. One thing that helps me a lot going out to restaurants, I love, you know, I love going to a new restaurant or going out with friends and figuring out like, okay, where can I go? I always look at the menu before I go because then I'll make better decisions.
(31:26):
And I've sort of trained myself probably from a young age to do that where it's like, okay, where, where do people wanna go? I look up the menu ahead of time, figure out what the thing is that I can have. The most difficult thing Harper is when they bring out that beautiful garlic bread and it's like fresh outta the oven, you're like, ugh, why I want that so badly. But I know what it does to my body and it is not like it's different from you. It's like okay, it's not worth it. And I know that and as tempting as it is, I'm gonna look at it <laugh> and like smell it and like love it from afar and, but then also with like gluten-free options, there are also so many things in this world, so many restaurants now that do like gluten-free pizza or you know, offer different alternatives.
(32:13):
I can have mozzarella cheese for some random reason I stay away from dairy, but I can have mozzarella cheese and sheep and goat cheese for some, we reason Delia can't have any of that. So Delia does like vegan cheese and so like learning okay, what restaurants have like gluten-free pizza, they also offer the vegan cheese option and like kind of piecemealing things there and being willing to speak up too. Your friends wanna go out to dinner and it's like, oh sorry, I can't eat at that place or eat before you go. I have been known to eat before, I've gone to like fancy galas before cause I'm like, I don't know what they're gonna put on my plate and I don't wanna be starving and I also don't wanna make a bad decision, you know, where I'm just like so hungry. You know, they say don't go to the grocery store when you're hungry because you'll make all the wrong choices and buy everything <laugh>.
(33:02):
And I feel like that is, that is when you go out to dinner or when you go to like a gala or something, we are in control. Like that's what we have to remember is we are in control of every single situation. Stro throw stuff in your backpack too, you know, if you're going on a trip, like I try to keep buy things ahead of time, even like gra granola bars or little snack things that are more healthy. You know, I have friends that do like chop up vegetables and fruit if they're going, I know it can be difficult to travel, especially if you're doing like international, but making those choices ahead of time helps you down the road.
Harper Spero (33:38):
I love all of those suggestions so much. And when you talked about smelling the garlic bread, I have a visual that I saw on Instagram this last week of this older woman. She was <laugh>, this older woman was eating salad and sniffing chocolate and every time she would sniff the chocolate, she then would take a huge bite of the lettuce and just sort of shove it in and then smell the chocolate again. It was, it was amazing. So
Kate Milligan (34:09):
That's how I feel sometimes and like my, I don't know where this came from and it's still like, it's probably a people might, well you'll have to tell me if you think it's a weird thing, but when I was little we would go out to dinner to this restaurant Bill Naps. It used to be a big thing here in Michigan, just kind of like diner type food or whatever, but they were like a lunch and dinner place and the kids menu, you got a dessert, but I couldn't eat any of the desserts and neither Cordelia. So we would order an ex, we would, whatever dessert we got, we would pick out the dessert and give it to my, my other sister who isn't allergic to anything, Moira and my brother Peter. And then we would tell them to eat it, ask them to eat. So they got two desserts.
(34:50):
They were so lucky. Best thing that happened to them was born into this family where they're filled with allergies so they would eat it and tell us about it. And so I still, it's like a weird thing, but I'm still like, I can't eat that chocolate cake but Harper tell me all about like, I'm so curious, like what is the like cream filling in there or is there like caramel in it, whatever. And it's like, I don't know, there's like a weird thing where I'm not getting to enjoy it, but it's so interesting to like it's so, I don't know. It's, I enjoy it through other people.
Harper Spero (35:22):
<Laugh>, I love that so much. I want to experience this with you in person one of these days. Yes,
Kate Milligan (35:29):
We will. We'll girl, I feel like it's gonna happen.
Harper Spero (35:32):
It is going to happen. So you mentioned one Girl Revolution and I wanna make sure talk about that. Can you talk about what One Girl re revolution is and why it was born?
Kate Milligan (35:44):
Yeah, so One Girl Revolution is a multimedia nonprofit organization and it was born really because of what I said earlier. I know what it feels like and it's not about me, but I've, through this experience of, of starting One Girl Revolution, I started realizing we are the One Girl Revolution idea or motto really came from our, our mo of really elevating women's voices in their stories. And I think it comes from my own story, I think that most women and girls can relate to that. The fact that at some point throughout your life you felt silenced, marginalized, ignored, not listened to. I think so many women and girls have experiences where people talk over us when we're in even a work meeting. And so I just started recognizing that there needed to be a space for women and girls and their stories to be heard.
(36:37):
My background's in PR and media. So I had worked in that industry for 15 years and living and working in DC for a while. I'm in Detroit now, but I worked in DC and felt like so often women are treated as political ponds instead of as people. And so, you know, I talk about it almost like a puzzle, you know, falling together. And so I was like, okay, there needs to be a space. I moved back to Detroit and read a book about the city of Detroit in Detroit's motto is There is always Hope and it will rise from the Ashes meaning Detroit. But I read those two phrases and I was like, that's it. I know what I need to do. I need to start a, a multimedia platform to highlight the stories of women. It always had a video element, but I had no funding when I started it.
(37:22):
And so I was like, all right, well I'll start it as a podcast. So it started as a podcast and we interview women and girls who are changing the world through their lives in all different types of ways. So from a little girl who's five years old that makes coloring books for children in hospitals all the way up to a stay-at-home mom who ha puts her kids to bed at night and then drives into New Jersey and she lives in New York and like drives into New Jersey and helps those experiencing homelessness, bringing them food and blankets and whatever they need, all the way up to a retired woman who is helping new moms take care of their babies and learn how to breastfeed and all of those just like important things that women need to know and building community around women. So started as a podcast, we have two short documentaries that are Emmy nominated, which is exciting and so got nominated for an Emmy and it just continues to grow and evolve. And so I encourage everybody who's listening to check out One Girl Revolution and and hear these amazing women and their stories.
Harper Spero (38:25):
It's so incredible. I've listened to many episodes and it's just so powerful to hear the different types of stories that you have and people from all around the world. What are some of the lessons that you've learned from these conversations and these women? What
Kate Milligan (38:40):
A great question. And Harper, nobody's ever asked me that before. So many things. So we have 174 episodes of the podcast and all different stories, unique stories, women who have founded organizations, women that are starting movements, you know, all these different types of women. And I feel like every conversation I've stepped away learning something and being challenged and I try to go into every single conversation being open, open-minded and open to whatever these women want to share. And I started it as a podcast because I love this medium, which is why I love what you're doing too. It's like such a great medium where you can actually spend time, quality time with people and we're not cut off when you're te someone's telling their story, they're not like, you're not like, okay 30 seconds like rap, we gotta rap. I love the podcast medium for that reason that you have more time and space and that women can share their stories in the way that they want to share their stories versus how I want to them to be curated I guess.
(39:44):
But I can help them curate their own stories. A lot of women, women that I interview have never told their story before, which I think is interesting. And there are populations of women that have never been heard from the incarceration community, you know, women who are, were formerly in prison, jail or prison or who are currently incarcerated. There's just a lot to pull back from there. So I just, to answer your question, I've learned so much from these women, but they, these women are give me courage, they challenge me to be better, they challenge me to be a better human being. I remember when Covid hit in March, 2020 and I remember thinking like, okay, what's one girl's role in this? Like what, what am I supposed to do? What can I do? I'm at home, I don't know, you know, everybody was sheltering in place and not able to leave and what can I do and what is one girl Revolution's role in this?
(40:39):
And we were only, I maybe had been doing the podcast for a year I think at that point. And I right away started identifying women across the country who were doing amazing things during the first days and weeks of the pandemic and interviewing those women and elevating their causes and elevating the ways that we all could get involved and make a difference in the world. And so the greatest thing that I've learned from these women is to be surprised, be surprised by life, to be surprised by other people, by conversations, right? Like you even coming into this conversation, I'm sure you had, I know you, you know me and so you have ideas of what things that you wanted to ask or things you wanted to talk about, but even like allowing ourselves to be surprised by our own lives but also by the lives and the people around us, that is the greatest thing that we can do in this world.
Harper Spero (41:32):
I love idea of the surprise. That's such a great point. And it also makes me think of Made Visible where I've interviewed a lot of people who have also never shared their story until they came on the show and I feel so honored that they're willing to share their story and to use my platform to be able to get their story out into the world. Are there topics that you have not covered that you're looking forward to covering on the show?
Kate Milligan (41:56):
Great question. I feel like with One Girl Revolution, I almost have like these different, and you and I have emailed back and forth about this. I have all these like different folders in my <laugh> in my brain where it's like, okay, these are, I wanna do so much more. I've really focused on, I've really focused on women who have founded organizations, but I think that there are also so many series that I'd like to do. So series with regards to health and wellness series with mental health plays a role in that. You know, there's a piece of that. I know you're talking to Melissa Bernstein and she's such an incredible woman who I've had on the podcast who's doing a lot in the mental health space and I hope to see more of that. I, for a very long time have wanted to do a series on the genocide of murdered and missing indigenous women.
(42:43):
Though I would like to do something on the indigenous community specifically with women, I've had people on the podcast before to talk about it kind of more generally, but I would really love to do a series and talk to talk to the leaders who are raising awareness and really striving to make a change there. Children, I think that kids that we learn can learn so much from kids and I've had a handful of children on the podcast who just had an idea or saw a need, which I think we need to see more of that in this world where it's like, hey Ruby Chissy, who's amazing out of Arkansas, who at nine years old started realizing that seniors who were living in retirement communities didn't have our senior living facilities didn't have any community. Their families would come visit them, you know, once a month, but outside of that they didn't have any visitors.
(43:34):
And so she started getting all of her little friends together and they would go visit them and then she started an organization called Three Wishes for Ruby's residents and they grant three wishes to elderly people living in senior living facilities. And she's created this kid, I mean now she's a teenager so she's not a, she's not a kid anymore, but when I interviewed her she was nine years old. And I think we can learn so much from children and I hope that we see more kids doing incredible things like that and that it encourages other, other kids too. So yeah, there's a lot, there's so much that I wanna do. I wanna find more ways to bring women together to have conversations, you know, even like how we are right now, but even like grow that fold where it's like, okay, could you do a round table discussion about exactly what we're talking about here? You know, bring, bring together numerous people who have job syndrome and like talk about our individual experiences. I don't see a lot of that happening in our world and when it does it's always political and it always becomes us versus them mentality. So I really want one Girl Revolution. My my dream for one Girl Revolution is that it continues to grow and evolve and be a space for conversations and community and commonality versus anything else.
Harper Spero (44:48):
Yeah, I agree with you on that. I do think that there are lots of platforms that are raising the voices of people who are already famous and successful and you hear a lot about those stories as opposed to the challenges that got them to where they are. So I think you and I need to discuss this further separately. One question I have for you is, one of the things that I'm most grateful for in running my business is being able to have the flexibility to manage my health and my wellbeing whenever and however I want because I work for myself. How does that affect you in doing your own thing?
Kate Milligan (45:27):
That's a great question and I think that's a really important thing to be talking about here. So right now I work for myself, I have flexibility with regards to PR contract work that I do. And then also with One Girl Revolution, I have a lot of flexibility. I also think there's a flip side to that coin where we have as much as you have flexibility, you also, it's a lot more work <laugh>. So I think anybody who's listening can can also relate, but I do love the, the flexibility and the ability that I have to do work whenever works for me. It's great to have that flexibility. So if there are days where you're having an off day and you need to just rest but at the same time I joke that with regards to One Girl Revolution, I am the one girl behind one Girl Revolution.
(46:10):
And so if I am having an off day or need to take a day off, then the work doesn't get done. And so I think that's kind, there's kind of a double edged sword there, but we need to have more conversation in the rest of the world. And I wish Delia was here, my sister Delia was here because she could speak to the fact she has a full-time job, she travels a lot for work, she's very successful and I know that her job and my previous jobs have been so supportive if I needed to take time off for work. But I don't think that that is everyone's experience. And so we really need to be having more conversations about health and wellness and making sure that there are spaces or you know, part of our in our careers where it's almost like written in like if you need a mental health day or whatever the thing is that you need to go through, if it's a health related issue, that you have the space to do that, to take care of yourself because that is the most important thing that we need to be taking care of ourselves.
Harper Spero (47:11):
Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more so I could go on and on with you. We may have to do a part two of this, but what do you wish people knew about invisible illness?
Kate Milligan (47:22):
So with invisible illness, you can't look at anyone and know what they're going through. And I know that there's this kitschy saying where it's like, okay, you don't, you never know what someone is struggling with, but the reality is in our world and we should be more aware than ever. I think there's some awareness beginning with regards to mental health, with regards to invisible illnesses, but we truly don't know what someone else is going through. And if you do find out that somebody that you know is going through something asks questions, I think that that can be really helpful because then that also helps us to feel heard. And you could say that about anything that somebody is going through, even, you know, with them in the mental health space, if you know somebody is struggling, ask questions and really be there and listen to what they have to say. Because we do have so much to say and we, you know, our stories matter.
Harper Spero (48:12):
Thank you so much. I appreciate you so much and it's so nice to talk to someone who gets it on such a deep level. Where can people learn more about you and One Girl Revolution?
Kate Milligan (48:24):
Yeah, so people can check out One Girl revolution@onegirlrevolution.com. All of our podcast episodes are there. Our documentaries, our social media links. And then my own personal website is kate milligan.com, so Kate, m i l l i g a n.com. And you can find all of my social media links and connect with me there.
Harper Spero (48:43):
Thank you.
Kate Milligan (48:44):
Thank you so much Harper.
Harper Spero (48:49):
Thanks for tuning into Made Visible. We hope you learned about something new today. If you enjoy this episode, please take a few minutes to subscribe, rate and review the show on Apple Podcast. Your support means the world to us. Visit made visible stories.com to check out our writing workshops, corporate offerings, and more information that can help you in navigating life with an invisible illness. Follow made visible stories on Instagram. See you next week.