Episode #116: Allison Raskin
Please note: This podcast is intended to provide information and education and is not intended to provide you with a diagnosis or treatment advice. You should consult with a licensed or registered healthcare professional about your individual condition and circumstance.
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We’ve all likely heard someone flippantly say, “Oh, I’m so OCD!” at least once in our lives. But what is it really like to live with this clinical diagnosis? How is everyday life managed, and how often does it affect people and their ability to live an uninterrupted, fulfilled life? Allison Raskin, noted podcaster, writer, and mental health advocate was diagnosed with OCD at four years old.
Allison was able to treat and manage the disorder with the help of her empathetic, understanding, and progressive parents to whom she credits her ability to cope and adjust in her daily life. Using a combination of podcasting, writing and sharing on Instagram, Allison also lives with depression and anxiety and was medicated at an early age. Allison has been able to share her methods and experiences in hopes of supporting those who are feeling lost or misunderstood as a result of mental illness.
Allison is in the process of earning her Master’s Degree in Psychology to further broaden her understanding of the different systems, disorders, and resources that currently exist. She has grown a large audience on social media through her advocacy and transparency, creating content that is accessible and helps people feel more represented supported, seen and heard.
“I don’t view my mental illness as a blessing. I view my reaction to those things as my blessing.”
Reasons to Listen:
Learn about the different kinds of OCD and the range of symptoms people experience depending on their type
Learn coping skills and mindset practices from Allison who has been actively working on improving her mental health and life quality from a very young age
Hear tips and tricks for being able to effectively communicate your challenges and habits related to mental illness with your partner or loved ones
Gain insight on how to be a supportive partner to someone with mental illness,Learn the different ways to treat OCD, including medication and exposure and response therapy
“Privilege shouldn’t be a part of getting the care people need. It should be a right.”
About Allison Raskin:
Allison’s first nonfiction book, Overthinking About You: Navigating Romantic Relationships When You Have Anxiety, OCD and/or Depression, came out in May 2022. She is the co-host of the popular weekly podcast Just Between Us. She also has a mental health focused Substack and Instagram account, both called Emotional Support Lady, all of which will be linked below.
Website: https://www.allisonraskin.com/
Instagram: @allisonraskin
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Harper Spero (00:04):
Made Visible helps people with invisible illnesses feel seen and heard. It provides a platform for people who seem fine but aren't, to share their experiences. It also helps to create a new awareness of how we can be sensitive and supportive to those with invisible illnesses.
Harper Spero (00:25):
Please note this podcast is intended to provide information and education and is not intended to provide you with a diagnosis or treatment advice. You should consult with a license or registered healthcare professional about your individual condition and circumstance. Hey guys welcome to another episode of Made Visible. I’m your host Harper Spero and I’m so glad you tuned in. It’s May which means it’s Mental Health Awareness Month and every Tuesday this month we’ll be releasing an episode related to mental health. I’m a big believer in talking about mental health regularly but wanted to shine a light on some stories especially this month. Today’s episode is with podcaster, writer and mental health advocate Allison Raskin. We talk about her experience with OCD, depression and anxiety and what it’s like to date and be in a relationship with someone with these conditions. I will give you a heads up that there is talk of self-harm and suicide. So if that is not something you wanna listen to today, please skip to another episode So, welcome Allison
Allison Raskin (01:15):
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
Harper Spero (01:17):
I am so looking forward to this conversation. As I said to you before we hit record, my list of questions is really long, so we'll see what we get to today. <Laugh>, let's start off, tell us who you are, where you're from and what you do and what this cute dog's name is. <Laugh>.
Allison Raskin (01:33):
Yes, Phantom just made an appearance. I always have him on my lap for like zooms and recordings and people don't notice till he readjusts himself in Frame <laugh>. I did like a, like an important TV pitch at like halfway through. He finally like popped his frame <laugh>.
Harper Spero (01:51):
But don't you feel like that's becoming accepted in like the last few years of just Oh it's totally kids running around and whatever your backdrop is like it just is what it is.
Allison Raskin (02:01):
I love it. It's, it's like letting us realize we can get work done without having an image of perfection <laugh>. So I
Harper Spero (02:08):
Couldn't agree more.
Allison Raskin (02:09):
But yeah I am a primarily a writer. I'm originally from New York. I came out to California to do undergrad program at U USC and screenwriting. So I really thought my journey would just be kind of attempting to work in TV and then through a, a series of events that sort of started with a web series class I took when I was at U usc. I've been making content for the internet since about probably about like 2010 or like since I graduated in 2011. That has really allowed me to have this career where writing is the core of it. But I've done a lot of different stuff. So I had a YouTube channel called Just Between Us that's now a podcast. I've written multiple books. My most recent being overthinking about you navigating romantic relationships when you have anxiety, OCD and or depression.
(03:03):
And as you can probably see with that title, I've really kind of launched into, in addition to writing and comedy writing, a lot of what I do now is in the mental health space because I've actually had OCD since I was four years old. And just by being on the internet and talking about my life, that's something that really came up a lot just sort of organically and then seeing the response to that like propelled me to keep exploring it and to keep talking about it. And I actually went back to school and I'm getting a master's in psychology so that I can not just speak to my own experience but hopefully be more effective in mental advocacy, mental health advocacy and just kind of write from a more, you know, credible point of view <laugh> of having things more than just what I experience <laugh> as my mental health and mental illness and a broader understanding of systems and other disorders and just the, the struggle that it is to sort of be alive today.
Harper Spero (04:02):
I love so much that you're doing that cuz so many people, especially someone who has built such an online presence and created all these different opportunities for people to learn from you and laugh from you and engage with you that you're like, how can I take this to the next level and be smarter ultimately to be able to serve yourself and the people around you. So major kudos to you for deciding to go that route. Let's go back a little bit. You mentioned being diagnosed with OCD when you were four years old. Do you remember those times? Do you remember what led to that diagnosis?
Allison Raskin (04:37):
I don't remember a lot of my childhood, which is interesting because that was definitely when I was the sickest. So it's kind of strange to have ownership over kind of trauma that I isn't present really in my mind. But what I do know is that I had something called pandas, which basically meant that I had a strep throat infection that sort of activated the OCD E in my brain. And now there's like some really interesting research around that where it's actually kind of being treated with antibiotics. But at the time, you know, in 94 or whatever that was not <laugh> a well-known thing. And my behavior changed really rapidly to the point where my parents were concerned that I might have a brain tumor. But I was really lucky and, and I always prefaced this by saying that like not all parents would've reacted as proactively as they did and would have understood that it was a mental health issue that needed to be addressed.
(05:34):
And so they got me into treatment really quickly. They put me on Prozac even though Prozac hadn't barely been on the market for only a few years. And I was four and they got me into therapy. And since then my mental health has been an ever present element of my life, but to very varying degrees where, you know, there have been times where, you know, my parents thought about having to pull me out of college, having to pull me out of boarding school and then there's been my adult life where I have been able to accomplish and do so much while these issues are much more manageable but also still, you know, ever ever present in a, in different levels. <Laugh>
Harper Spero (06:17):
You know, you bring up this really interesting point that I'm not sure I've heard a lot on the podcast of your parents sort of navigating this not necessarily without you, but without you really being aware of it happening and them making these decisions when you were so young. And the fact that you don't have these memories and I don't know if the word is progressive or what to say about your parents that they thought to take these actions. And I think there's so many stigmas related to mental health and getting on Prozac at a young age that I wonder what you can say about your parents and why you think they were so determined to find an answer for you.
Allison Raskin (06:58):
I feel very lucky that they were my parents and not just for this, but I, I've said before if I was born into a different family and I became as ill, I don't know if I would be alive today, which sounds dramatic, but also is the reality for I think a lot of people unfortunately. And I think that a couple things happened, I think a perfect storm in a good way, <laugh> about what allowed them to really get me the help that I needed. I think one, they are both very progressive people who had no stigmas around mental health and didn't view it as any sort of reflection of their parenting or that I was just had an attitude problem. Like they did not personalize what I was going through in any way. They were also on the same page about it from the very beginning, which I think in some couples is not the case, you know, where one parent might wanna be more proactive, where the other parent is sort of, let's just wait this out.
(07:56):
They were both like, we need to address this. And part of that might be that mine came on so quickly. I think for a lot of other children who have OCD and a you know, growing up it might be a slower progression. So then it's almost harder to be like, oh, you know, at what point do we get them to a professional? But because mine, my onset was so sudden it was sort of like, oh, we can't ignore this. And then the three, which is a really important element is that they could afford to get me the help that I needed. And that is a huge problem in America and other countries and you know, they had the financial means and they had health insurance and they could get me what needed to be done. And unfortunately for a lot of people that financial strain or even just the ability that my mom was not porking anymore, she was able to stay home with me.
(08:47):
You know, there are parents where that's not a possibility, so they can't get you to those therapy appointments. You know, I at one point lied down in the middle of the street kind of in a attempt to hurt myself or to die and they sort of sold her, you know, you have to either watch her 24 7 or she needs to be in psychiatric care, you know, like inpatient. And my mom was able to watch me 24 7, like who knows what would've happened if as a preschooler I had to be hospitalized. You know, like all of those factors allowed for the type of care that I received. And that's not, and and a lot of it is like my parents being incredible people and a lot of that is privilege. And I think that the problem is that privilege shouldn't be a part of people getting the care that they need. It should be a a right.
Harper Spero (09:36):
Yeah, I could not agree more. Wow, I appreciate you sharing all of that. So what are your earliest memories of living with OCD? Like what are those memories?
Allison Raskin (09:46):
Ooh, this is a tough question to ask someone with OCD because I'm constantly doubting my memories, right? Like I <laugh> I'll tell you what happened yesterday and you'll go, really? And I'll go, I don't know, <laugh>. So at this point I, I think so much of it is more just the, the memories of the stories that I've been been told over the years. You know, more than anything it's hard to decipher. I think memory is such a, such a tricky thing. And so like they'll tell me that I had more outward compulsions like that I like looked like, I was like, you know, a third base coach is like what my mom will say, like doing all these things, but no memory of that. I'll remember stories more. It's like I remember like one time I touched the floor and so that was a big accomplishment because so much of my theme of my OCD is around contamination. And so I like got a stuffed animal as a reward, you know, <laugh> like, but again, I think that's where the story of being told that the actual moment ingrained in my brain.
Harper Spero (10:44):
That's such an interesting point and I think that's something unique about OCD that's not really like a lot of other chronic and invisible illnesses you've shared that you've never not thought of yourself as mentally ill and that's framed how you move through the world. Can you talk a little bit more about that?
Allison Raskin (11:03):
I was just talking this about this with my fiance in a way, like where I was like, how much of of the way that I see things do you think is like affected by this? And he was like a lot <laugh>. And I think at the beginning it was bad. I think at the beginning growing up it was something is wrong with me, I'm quote unquote crazy. I I don't have these innate social skills that other people seem to have. I, I would put my foot in my mouth a lot. I, I viewed people's behavior as very black and white and I could not tolerate any gray and that would lead me to reject people for things I probably shouldn't or be far too judgemental. And then as I've gotten older, I think it has now become a, I'm so careful around my language because I don't like to say things like blessing or superpower because for me I don't view my mental illness as those things.
(12:02):
I view my reaction to my mental illness as those things, if that makes sense, <laugh>. And it can feel like semantics, but I think it is important. And so I think because I've had to work on myself so much just to get to a baseline level that maybe came easier to other people who are neurotypical. I'm at a place where like as an adult I have done a lot of work that maybe some people are just starting or some people never get around to. And then I also think that I have an ability for empathy that it was is a muscle. I truly believe empathy is a muscle and I think a lot. And I actually think being in school has helped a lot because it was a lot of like, well this is my version of events and I understand how my mental illness affects my daily life. But going to school has really helped me understand how other types of illness affects people's lives and be more empathetic and understanding to that. And, and then I think also not caring about a lot of things society makes us care about because I've had to deal with other stuff <laugh>, if that makes sense.
Harper Spero (13:23):
Yeah, absolutely. That totally makes sense. But I think it's interesting that empathy is like a key word here related to being in school and learning how to be more empathetic. And I wish that more people would learn to be more empathetic, especially in the invisible illness community or for on behalf of the invisible illness community. You mentioned contamination OCD and I'm wondering if you can describe a little bit more what that is and the different types of OCD There are.
Allison Raskin (13:54):
So OCD is a very interesting disorder because it has so many different subsets and people experience it so differently. And so I think there is sort of the sitcom version of OCD, which is like, oh my gosh, let me line up my pens correctly, or let me flip this light switch 10 times. And they're not wrong. Like there, there's elements of that that I'm sure a lot of people live with, but it, it is this thing where, what makes OCD different than just maybe anxiety is the compulsion element, right? And so there's some debate around that, around puro, but I don't have puro so I I won't speak to that, but where you have a, an obsession and then you have a compulsion that will relieve the distress that the obsession is causing. And so that can look totally different where if somebody has harm OCD, right?
(14:51):
And so that could be an obsession that I'm either gonna hurt myself or I'm gonna hurt another person. So they could be standing in the kitchen and they could have a knife and they could be like, oh my God, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stab my partner. They're not gonna stab their partner, they don't wanna stab their partner, they're not even probably a violent person, but the OCD is making them think this thought over and over again. And so then maybe for them the compulsion is I have to put the knife in a locked drawer, you know, like, or, or something. Or like another subset that I think is becoming more and more talked about and relevant is like relationship OCD, which is sort of an obsession with are you in the right relationship? Does your partner love you the right way?
(15:32):
And so a compulsion around that is often kind of like seeking reassurance. So reassurance seeking even in and of itself is a compulsion of like, do you love me? Or like, do you think we're in love enough? Like asking that of either your, of your partner, of your friends, of your parents, you know, that kind of thing. And then I have some elements of that. And then I'd say, but my main thing, the thing that gets in the way of my life the most for me is kind of like a classic contamination subset where I am obsessed with, with germs and contamination. So I am constantly tracking things that I believe are contaminated and then my compulsion is then cleaning those things or trying to avoid any further contamination. And so in a lot of ways, like I do sort of have like what people think it is, but <laugh>, you know, I've also tried to educate that like this is just one type a lot of other people experience.
(16:31):
They, they, you know, you might meet somebody with OCD who has some of the worst hygiene you've ever met because they don't have the contamination subset. And also the contamination is not logical, it's not based on science. So like, I'm not afraid of getting covid. I actually like, I mean I am, I take covid very seriously. I'm like one of the very few people I know who continues to mask and I think it's, we're still very much in a pandemic, but like my anxiety, right? I just did my safety behaviors like you should as a concerned citizen. But what I'm tracking is I'm tracking germs but not germs to make me sick germs that give me the ick. And so that's like a very important distinction between contamination OCD because there are some people where the concern is I'm gonna get sick and I do not wanna get sick.
(17:20):
And for me, I just do not wanna feel contaminated because the feeling of being contaminated is so distressing and disgusting that I will do anything to avoid that feeling. And that is something that I think is difficult for people to understand. Whereas if it's I'm afraid of getting sick, even if it's maybe not logical, your behaviors or your behaviors are a little, you know, hypervigilant, there is a sense of like, oh, well I would get why someone wouldn't wanna get sick. Where it's like, I don't want the ick people are like, what <laugh>, you know,
Harper Spero (17:50):
<Laugh>. So can you give some examples of like what the last few years have looked like with your OCD related to covid? Because to your point, I would've expected, you know, you didn't leave your house the entire time and still don't, and that's an assumption as someone who is learning about OCD. So I I, I'd really be curious to hear like some examples here.
Allison Raskin (18:19):
I'd say that my OCD has gotten so much worse over the course of the pandemic in a lot of ways. And I think that that's just the case for so many people. And having the self-compassion for myself that like, oh, my OCD has more control over me than I would like and I've picked up all of these new compulsions, you know, being a mental health advocate can be like, oh, does that mean I'm failing? Or you can say, actually considering everything that happened, it makes so much sense that it would be worse. And so why don't we eat, you know, lead with self-compassion about that. And so something that I used to be able to do before the pandemic was I could go out in public and then I could come home and not feel the need to shower or change my clothes, but so much of the messaging around early covid really reinforced that we, we didn't know how the disease worked.
(19:13):
And so there we thought it was sort of like surface based even though it was more airborne. And so like I got into the habit of these compulsions that like, don't protect me from covid <laugh>, but I kind of got this like societal okay to sort of like let my OCD run wild and let it do everything that it wanted to do to in its head keep me safe when reality it's hindering my life. And so it's now difficult for me to pull back on compulsions that I, that I allowed to come out during the pandemic. So pre pandemic, I would, and again, this gets to how it's not based in science or logic. I would touch doorknobs, I would press elevator buttons, I would sign a receipt at a restaurant and I wouldn't feel like I needed to purell my hands, but we were taught to Purell our hands during the pandemic. And now a lot of people are able to say, well I'm not gonna do that anymore, right <laugh>. But my brain is like, oh we are, we like this and we're gonna keep doing it. <Laugh>.
Harper Spero (20:25):
Yeah, I, it's, it's so interesting to hear this and you know, it makes me think how many people use the word OCD lightly and how many people, you know, throw around I'm so OCD and I will say that I was definitely one of those people pre hosting made visible and getting more educated and realizing like this is a diagnosed condition and this is not something to throw around. So what are your thoughts on people using this term, especially in recent years around the pandemic?
Allison Raskin (20:56):
My thoughts have actually changed. I think again, before school I felt like a gatekeeper where if somebody would say that they had, they were so OCD, I would have this sort of like glib response of like, well when were you diagnosed? Right <laugh>. And a thing that I've really thought about a lot is that like all of these disorders are on a spectrum and so it's very possible for people to have OCD tendencies without it dipping into the clinical diagnosis level. So you might very well have a few compulsions that like, oh yes, when I do this, I notice that I have to readjust my shirt a certain way whenever I put my shirt on. Like, and yeah, that's made me an OCD tendency. But the question of like when it becomes a disorder is the amount that it affects your life.
(21:48):
And so I think that that is really the problem with throwing the term around is not that like, I'm not saying that like you don't necessarily have some tendencies, it's just that the way that we talk about it sometimes so flippantly makes it difficult for people to understand its impact for people who live with it in a more severe form. And my OCD impacts my life every single day throughout the entire day. And I would argue that I have a mild to moderate form of it <laugh>. Like there are people where their compulsions will take up 10 hours of their day where they are unable to, to do what they wanna do in their lives because of their OCD. And I think that when we talk about it flippantly, it ignores that population. And so that's where I push back against it more than me say, me deciding whether or not what you are experiencing is or is not OCD or OCD tendencies, because who are I to say? And also, like we talked about at the beginning, you might never have had access to a formal diagnosis. So when I would make these assumptions that when someone would say it flippantly, I've now kind of been like, well, maybe it's true for them, how do I know? But I think when you know that that's not true for you and when you know that like it is much more just a tendency or mild or like a habit versus a all consuming disorder, maybe be, you know, more careful about your language use.
Harper Spero (23:16):
Yeah, no, I appreciate that a lot and makes a lot of sense and, and the term tendencies really make sense there. So what are the tools and resources that best support you in navigating your OCD and mental illness in general? You talked about Prozac, you talked about self-compassion. What other things have been most useful for you?
Allison Raskin (23:37):
I'm not on Prozac anymore, I'm on tr So I've been on a ton of different medications throughout. I will argue that like I don't know how my medications are necessarily with my OCD, they seem to be much more effective with my mood and my generalized anxiety. In a lot of ways I've made such huge strides in those elements of my mental health where the OCD remains the strongest fighter and my main enemy <laugh>. I've been able to do a lot of work around my anxiety, my attachment, my, my mood, my, you know, dealing with kind of being able to get myself out of depressive episodes faster, all of that. But the OCD, the most recommended evidence-based practice is always gonna be exposure and response prevention. And I did that as a kid and then I did it again last year for a few months.
(24:33):
But the thing about E R P is it's really hard and you have to be really motivated and something that I'm learning about myself is that I don't need to be getting better all of the time. <Laugh>, like I do a lot. And to put the pressure on myself to constantly be fighting my OCD at every moment all day long, it's just not a life that is very intriguing or interesting to me because to fight it, you kind of have to be in distress and I don't wanna be in distress all the time. <Laugh>, understandably so <laugh>. And so I, in like recent months have taken a harm reduction approach to my OCD where instead of feeling like I need to to fight it at every turn, I try to fight it when it makes sense for my life or my values.
(25:25):
And so a values-based approach to OCD is when your compulsions are getting in the way of something that really matters to you. So for example, last summer we were having a ping pong housewarming party and the plan was to just have it be all outside for covid and because it was the summer, but we woke up that day and it was unbelievably hot and I just knew that it would be miserable for people to not be able to be indoors at all. But then my OCD goes, but what about their shoes? Right? Like I don't want them in, you know, I have a no shoes home, but like it would be an indoor outdoor party and that would be so annoying for everybody. And I had already, because I knew about these instincts for myself, I'd already planned to have the house clean the following day anyway.
(26:19):
And so I had a kind of conversation with myself where I said it's more important that people are able to just sort of like come in and out. You know, we had the doors open for airflow and everything, but that was more important that they could enjoy the party than for me to force my O C T on everybody here. And so partially because I had set up my, I had prepared to to care for myself, I already had the house being clean the next day and so I was able to say, okay, for the party, people can keep their shoes on. And so that to me is like a very values-based approach to dealing with my O C E D and you know, having like my best friends come over and be like, what should I do? Like, and I'm like, I'm letting you wear 'em. <Laugh>
Harper Spero (27:02):
Being
Allison Raskin (27:03):
Like, woo, like, you know, <laugh>.
Harper Spero (27:07):
So that's an example of me having a tendency because I had a party in December and I am a no shoe home as well, and my friends walked in and they were like, shoes and I'm like, keep 'em on. Yeah, <laugh>. I also was having my home clean the next day and they were not joking, stomping all over my floors <laugh> so excited to not have to deal with not wearing their shoes. It, you know, it's an interesting thing to think about the people around you. I'm so curious and we'll get into your book, but what was it like when you started dating your fiance and how and when did you share with him that you had OCD and mental illness?
Allison Raskin (27:49):
I'm lucky in that I, for whatever reason have never had too much shame around my OCD. Like I maybe because my parents just sort of accepted it so much, I had a lot of kind of shame around other behaviors of mine and, and things. But you know, I was always pretty upfront that I had OCD and I mean, you Google me and it's, I mean, yeah, one of my favorite jokes I ever made to him was like, I was once featured in Glamor Magazine online and he was like, oh, for what? And I was like, faces of mental illness, you know, <laugh>, like, that's like <laugh>. But a thing that was really pivotal in my learning how to talk about my OCD with partners was I used to just make the demands, right? It used to just be don't touch this, don't put that there, how dare you?
(28:41):
And that can feel like a real personal attack. It can really feel like, oh, this person thinks I'm disgusting <laugh>. And, and I'll be honest, I think most people are disgusting, but I understand that that's my mental illness. And so something I learned that was really important was being able to vocalize how my OCD manifests for me and also the distress that it causes me. Because if we're leaving out the distress, then I'm just making demands and I'm just kind of an uptight, you know, neurotic person, which can be more difficult to deal with. But when it's, when you take your shoes off so that I can feel safe in my own home, it's a little different and it's a lot easier for somebody who loves and cares about you to have empathy for and compassion for what you're going with instead of taking it so personally.
(29:34):
And so there's kind of a whole, there's a whole chapter in my book that's really dealing with how do we have these difficult conversations with our partners about our, our mental health, not just OCD, but in general. And, and I think that there's this really harmful assumption out there that when you meet the quote unquote right person for you, then they will instinctively know how to care for you. But especially when it comes with mental health issues, they're so unique the way that my anxiety manifests and things that work. I mean you could even have, you could even have two people in a relationship and they both have generalized anxiety disorder and they need support and help in completely different ways. And so this assumption that your partner should automatically know what is the best way to give you support, what is the best way to help you, is really unfair. And so a lot of the work is like one, figuring out what does work for you, how can you best vocalize that? And then being able to share that with your partner and the real test is not, do they automatically know because how could they, it's really can they absorb what you're telling them and take it in with empathy and, and be able to support you once they know how instead of like this expectation that they should just know how.
Harper Spero (30:52):
Yeah, no, that's a really good point. I think there's a lot of mind reading assumptions that happen of like, you should know what I need, you should know what to do. And I think with or without OCD with or without mental illness, that's just something that needs to be considered, you know, in life with friendships, with family, with partners that you can't assume to know that people know what to do with you. You mentioned your book, which I'm gonna mention the name of again, which is overthinking about you navigating romantic relationships when you have anxiety, OCD and or depression. That's a mouthful.
Allison Raskin (31:29):
<Laugh>,
Harper Spero (31:30):
Can you talk about what inspired you to write this book?
Allison Raskin (31:34):
So I came up with the idea of the book in like 2019 mostly because I was realizing that I was able to date in a way I hadn't been able to before. I had a lot of really unhealthy dating patterns and I think that that romantic relationships exacerbated my mental health more than anything else. And I felt often out of control. I felt like my worst self, I felt like this area of my life that I couldn't get right. And then noticing that I was able to show up in a different way was really interesting. And I was like, oh, well maybe this will be useful to share that. Like we can actually learn to be in relationship in a different way. And at first the conceit of the book was much more memoir based, but my general trajectory, I was like, well, I think it's helpful to make it more universally applicable.
(32:26):
And so the, the final result of the book is much more research based where I have a lot of interviews with experts and different couples and relationship coaches and therapists and sexologists and, and to really not just provide my own journey, which is sort of the backdrop in the through line of the book, but then also provide like actual tips and tricks and guidelines and things to add to our toolbox so that it is like, okay, and now what do I actually do <laugh> and how do I get from A to B instead of just knowing that getting from A to B is possible, but I don't know what steps to take.
Harper Spero (33:05):
Yeah, no, that's incredible. And clearly a must read for everyone will be sure to include the link in the show notes for everyone to buy the book. If readers take away one thing from the book, what do you hope that to be?
Allison Raskin (33:19):
My main message is really that I think when, when you live with mental illness or mental health issues, there is a sense that you have to take what you can get when it comes to romantic relationships. And I really push back against that. I think that we have every right to have as fulfilling and satisfying your relationship as anyone else. And also a lot of times the work that we have done on ourselves makes it so we're actually better prepared to be good partners. Where I think the messaging is often the opposite.
Harper Spero (33:51):
Yeah, I love that. So you've laughed many a times slash we have laughed many a times so far in this recording, and I'm wondering, you know, you infuse humor in so much of what you do. Has that always been a case? Is it a coping mechanism? What led you to the humor route?
Allison Raskin (34:11):
I think it's a, a coping mechanism that has turned into my favorite part of my life. You know, I think that like humor as a coping mechanism is, is a wonderful thing. And I always say I'd rather if I didn't laugh, I'd have to cry <laugh>, you know, and there's a time and a place for humor, but for me humor is a great way to process things. It's a great way for things to not feel overwhelming. It's a way to signal to other people. Like I know that this is, that that that the situation isn't ideal, but also it's okay because we're laughing through it. And it's funny with that book I didn't really set out to make it funny <laugh> I don't think that was like a conscious decision. I think it's just maybe how I wrote it. And it's been wonderful to sort of get that feedback.
Harper Spero (35:00):
It's interesting because a few weeks ago my friends were doing an improv show and I don't know that I've ever been to an improv show before, but I went and I was terrified and like truly, I know I was just in the audience, but being in the audience was scary enough to me and being in that setting. But I left so hard and I had had a tough week and it was true medicine. Like, I came home just like buzzing and going, wow, I need to go to more things like this because it really does provide so much lightness when things can be, you know, dark in our lives
Allison Raskin (35:33):
And even just physiologically, right? I mean, laughter is a great way to change your mood <laugh> and to like release stress from your body and just the way your body feels following a big laugh, like I think is is catharsis.
Harper Spero (35:49):
Yeah, absolutely. So you've created supportive mental health communities on social media, including your account emotional support lady, which I love so much. <Laugh>, what role does community play in your life and experience in navigating mental illness?
Allison Raskin (36:06):
I've actually always really struggled to have a community. I think I do much better one-on-one in terms of friendships versus like, you know, I was in a sorority but I dropped out of the sorority because I didn't have friends in it. And, and you know, a lot of that is sort of like that I had a lot of social issues that made it difficult for me growing up. But you know, I think community can mean all sorts of things and I think that while there's obviously a lot of downsides of how we are all online and, and social media, one of the big upsides is the ability to form community and you know, just through emotional support lady and the fan base I've built around just between us, like being able to see that like sharing your story matters, that other people relate to it, that people share their story back to me.
(36:58):
I mean, I just think that having these conversations are new and newer than we think that they are. You know, it's really like in the last 10 years that we're all sort of like talking so openly about this stuff and it allows people to feel less alone. It allows people to have less shame and we all are also learning from each other. You know, I think that there is the potential to potentially over pathologize based on social media and I think sometimes we're seeing that a little on TikTok, but again, it's all spectrum, it's all tendencies. Like, you know, like and and being able to see that you're not alone in something has so much value.
Harper Spero (37:36):
Yeah, obviously I agree in, in creating made visible. So the interesting thing is about this, and I've talked to other people around this topic, how do you navigate having this large social presence and this large social media following and managing your own mental health? Because I imagine there's some level of responsibility that you feel in creating content, but also making sure that you're doing what's best for you.
Allison Raskin (38:02):
I'd say the biggest issue is always feeling like it's not enough. That like a few years ago I had more followers and more engagement. I had sort of more status in the entertainment industry and more power or you know, like I had more doors open to me and, and because I had a bigger fan base and just who knows through time or the way different algorithms and apps and you know, I think the hardest thing for my mental health is not feeling like I am a failure on social media of like not letting the fact that my Instagram goes down be a reflection of my self worth of not feeling like, oh, well if I only posted more then I could finally get that TV show I'm wanted for, for whatever. And instead focusing back on, it's not a numbers game, it's a quality game. And if I'm helping people then that's the value. But running a business while also doing advocacy, I mean it's difficult, right? They get overlap, you get caught up in the wrong parts of it. And so that is definitely a thing I've been working on really recently of enjoying my own life and not having it be as tied to the metrics of my content posts and how well they're doing because it's, it's hard not to, you know, I worked at Buzzfeed, it's hard not to be obsessed with that <laugh>
Harper Spero (39:18):
<Laugh>. I mean, anytime someone mentions the word algorithm, I immediately eye roll because it's just so frustrating for people who are trying to put out good content. I mean, you are impacting people's lives in such a positive way in helping people feel less alone in what they're living through. And social media, the platform and the people who you know are monetizing it and making so much money by you being on it are screwing with it. And it's just so frustrating because you're really just trying to do a, a good thing. So my last question for you is, what do you wish people knew about invisible illness?
Allison Raskin (39:59):
I think overall, I just wish that people wouldn't assume that they know more than the person with the lived experience. I think there is like a big tendency to be like, oh, but did you try this? Or, oh, what about that? You know? And I think that like really letting people be the experts in their own lives and leading with empathy and listening instead of assuming, you know, better.
Harper Spero (40:27):
Really Amen to that. I could not agree more. Thank you for saying that. Where can people learn more about you? Buy the book, follow you, listen to your podcast, all the good stuff that you have going on in the, on the Innerwebs <laugh>.
Allison Raskin (40:42):
So Overthinking About You is a available pretty much anywhere books are sold. And then you can listen to my weekly podcasts just between us, anywhere podcasts are available. We talk a lot about mental health and relationships on there. We also have really fun interviews with various experts from like animal scientists to historians. It's kind of whatever we find interesting. And then my mental health brand is Emotional Support Lady, which is both an Instagram account and a where I, I post content there, written content podcasts at least once a week.
Harper Spero (41:16):
Amazing. Thank you so much, Alison.
Allison Raskin (41:19):
Oh, thank you for having me.
Harper Spero (41:24):
Thanks for tuning into Made Visible. We hope you learned about something new today. If you enjoyed this episode, please take a few minutes to subscribe, rate review the show on Apple Podcasts. Your support means the world to us. Visit made visible stories.com to check out our writing workshops, corporate offerings, and more information that can help you in navigating life with an invisible illness. Follow made visible stories on Instagram. See you next week.